What's wrong with California?

[ilbegone]

Originally Posted by wetibbe

Agreed that it does not matter statistically that Latinos outnumber Caucasians in the near term

taking into account that most Latinos are illegal alien Campesinos semi literate with at best a 6th grade education and some that are illiterate and cannot count numbers.

Gently, here is where you're wrong.

Just what the hell is a "Latino"? So many different meanings depending on convenience of the moment. "Latino" does not confer the meanings of Illegal, citizen; educated, ignorant; Spanish, English; Republican, Democrat; Catholic, Protestant; 5th generation, newly arrived; country of origin; law abiding, criminal; communist, socialist, or capitalist or even race.

We have a pope from Argentina, an old white man from south America elected by old white men in Europe to be the head of the church. The domestic brown race hustlers fell all over themselves that a "Latino" had become Pope and projected he would do all sorts of things about legalization. I asked a number of Mexican nationals, mostly of dubious legality and various degrees of English fluency, it it were a big deal about the Pope being "Latino". They didn't care about whether he was white or brown, nor where he came from. They all said it what was in the man's heart and could he fix the problems of the church. And not a one mentioned anything about the Pope addressing the issue of illegal immigration into the United States.

I see people of all different generations, of different cultures or mixtures of cultures, of widely ranging origins who are all lumped together as if they were all the same person.

And that's just simply not true.

Do I believe that there is a migration so vast that assimilation is hindered? Very much so.

Do I believe that many of the children of illegals do not become adequately educated and grow up to be a net drag on society? yes

Do I believe that what made America into such a desirous place to immigrate to is being torn out by the roots? Yes. And much of it is encouraged by white people.

But, people who grow up here are not the same people as their parents and grandparents, regardless of how both sides of the immigration shout down make it so.

Race does not prevent those kids from being American, nor does it prevent them from taking in whatever it was and is that made America great. The fact that many don't can be faulted in many directions, not the least the schools and politicians who pander to "diversity", those who want to tear down America and make it into something else.

[wetibbe]

Generally it is a catch phrase in common usage, perhaps urban dictionary language, broadly interpreted by many as someone who speaks Spanish. An alternate word is Hispanic, generally also meaning Spanish speaking.

I have a "network partner", friend, colleague, that is of PuertoRican descent, one of those opposed to illegal aliens and she is the most vehemently opposed. Absolutely against. She despises the word Latino. Gone to great lengths to define it.

I don't recall precisely the statistics but the vast majority of illegal aliens, in numbers, come from Latin America *( So what is Latin America ? ). 60% from Mexico. When we look at the demographics of Mexico we find a significant mixture of nationalities and cultures. The Conquistadores had Mexicans divided into 18 categories. One of interest is that about 5% are actually true Meso Americans, Indians, living up in the mountains and who speak native tongue and not Spanish. And those in Maya territory that are separatist Mayans. Indeed Vicente Fox has a Scottish name and a father of Scottish descent.

I think that by numbers, the border jumpers are predominantly campesinos, poor and badly educated. The Guatemalans here in New York are by far the poorest and worst. Some apprehended could not read or count numbers. They set up camps in the woods on the outskirts of towns, in urban areas, ramshackle hovels built with scraps and stolen lumber. They drank all day, played cards, fought, shop lifted, killed and roasted wild game and lived like animals, broke into cars, garages and homes. Some sneaked into the schools at night in winter to sleep in a warm place. Some of the churches allowed them to sleep in the church. It got so bad that the fathers of children went out on vigilante patrols to protect families.

They all had one thing in common. They broke many laws. *( All of the drug running, human trafficking, counterfeiting, identity theft and on and on is too extensive to post ).

I lived in Latin America. I know them up close. There are certainly many upstanding, well educated, good people there. I worked with them. But there are huge numbers out in the campo living in oil drum and cardboard shacks, with dirt floors, and in the barrios surrounding cities. The kids don't go to school and pick pocket and steal to survive. That' what we are getting here coming across illegally.

Brazilian police were actually shooting them, paid by shop keepers. *( Yes, it's true ). And the Oligarchs want to dump them on us to get rid of the burden.

[ilbegone]

"Hispanic" doesn't mean anything more than "Latino" does. Hernan Cortes was an "Hispanic", and all the things cynical, straw clutching "Latino advocates" do like turning Admiral Farragutt into a "Latino" (born 1801 in South Carolina to a Scots Irish mother and a white Spaniard) and all the noise about the new white "Latino" pope from Argentina American raised "Latino activists" generated when he was selected makes Cortes a "Latino" too.

But now we're getting somewhere with the clarification of "border jumpers" and not conflating all "Latinos" with being illegal.

The words "Hispanic" and "Latino" are often purposefully used to blur the many differences between people described as such, as is the word "Mexican". "Puerto Rican" can be similarly confusing, is your friend Island born (US citizen) and recently arrived or was she born in New York with the general "look" of a "Puerto Rican" and has Puerto Rican ancestors? If she speaks Spanish, is it a Puerto Rican dialect, or inflected with a "grew up in New York" American accent, or is it Spanglish and Americanized slang?

Then there's Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor from New York, who babbled that her life experiences "as a woman and a Latina" would really bring something marvelous to the bench.

Try a little experiment by calling your PR friend "Cuban", then duck, cover and roll when the reaction comes around.

Most of your Guatemalan neighbors would be very offended by being referred to as "Mexican", and Mexican nationals would be just as insulted by the confusion, for Guatemala is to Mexico what Mexico is to the United States. Then there are the group of Americans who racially identify as Mexican (It took me a long time to understand this one beyond the surface), but don't appreciate nor fit in with illegals from Mexico. Mexican nationals generally do not at all like the Americanization of their children, but El Salvadorans are at wits end by their children being Mexicanized in California.

And, regardless of what your Puerto Rican friend says, a person can board the plane in south America as a Bolivian but as soon as that person enters US airspace her Bolivian identity is wiped out and replaced with "Hispanic" and "Latina", as all of her potential American born citizen children will also have their American identity negated by those very same descriptions as well. Many white Americans have a clueless "from Palm trees to cactus, they're all the same" thought, and all those American raised "Latino activists" way add to the confusion by conflating everyone with Latin American ancestry with real live Latin Americans. (the NCLR packs Cubans and Puerto Ricans in the same "Latino" bag with Mexicans, which tends to piss off quite a number of California and Texas "University Mexicans", who think it all revolves around their immigrant Mexican great grandparents and themselves but also work on "converting" those of Central American ancestry to racist bullshit Mechista type dogma. El Salvadoran born Rey Berrios is a classic example of the latter, check out his book "Cholo Style" for an example of San Fernando Valley Aztlanista racist fantasy blended with barrio slum thuggery. I believe that the man, incredibly for his lifestyle, has a university degree.).

Your understandibly unwelcome Guatemalan neighbors have a niche in the so called "Latino" world (WHICH ONE AMONG NUMEROUS "LATINO" WORLDS???) in the American imagination, and so does your Puerto Rican friend and the lady of my house, whose parents were born in Mexico.

And neither your "PR" friend nor my "Mexican" housemate are the cockroaches you have implied by the indiscriminate use of the word "Latino"

Please think about that.

If they are illegal they need to go - from wherever in the world they are from and regardless of race, and I do see that California is well on the road to becoming America's first third world state, but that is a result of what is brought with the mass being too large for full cultural assimilation, not race.


Just for interest concerning Latin American dialects:

http://www.trustedtranslations.com/s...n-dialects.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Spanish

Speakers of New Mexican Spanish are mainly descendants of Spanish colonists who arrived in New Mexico in the sixteenth through the eighteenth centuries. During this time, contact with the rest Spanish America was limited, and New Mexican Spanish developed on its own course. In the meantime, Spanish colonists coexisted with and Intermarried with Puebloan peoples and Navajos.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexican_Spanish

The Spanish dialects spoken by some Tejanos are becoming more influenced by Mexican dialects of Spanish due to a large influx of recent immigrants from Mexico. In some locations of South and West Texas these Spanish Creoles and the dialects of English spoken by Anglos and non-bilingual Tejanos are being supplanted as the dominant language by Mexican Spanish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Texas

Tejano is the word for the culture and music of the Hispanic population of Texas, which has its heartland in the Rio Grande valley. Tejano culture has a 300 year lineage, and is unique because of the admixture of Mexican and Texan cultural elements over the course of that time.

Tejanos speak a unique dialect of Spanish, called Tex-Mex, or, more derisively, Spanglish, which consists of Spanish grammatical structures with many English loan words. Tejano cuisine is also distinct from that of Mexican, and is probably best characterized by more deep-frying and the use of flour for tortillas instead of the more traditional corn. Most "Mexican" restaurants in America serve Tex-Mex food, and many culinary ideas which started in Tejano cooking have since filtered back to Mexico, further confusing matters.

Tejano music is also quite unique, and very popular even among the Anglo population of Texas. It is a mixture of traditional elements of Mexican country ballads, waltz and polka forms brought to Texas by central European immigrants, the country-western music of the Scots-Irish Texans, and Mexican and American pop music. http://everything2.com/title/Tejano

(Check out "Margarita" as recorded by Little Joe y La Familia, for a 1960's example of Tejano music - it's not Mexican, but Cuatro Milpas as recorded by Little Joe Y La Familia is way old school Mexican)

The language of "P.R." comes from the Andalusian region of Spain, with a heavy Canary Island influence, reflecting the origin of the early colonizers and settlers. It has been further modified by taking in words from the Taino Indians who originally inhabited the island, and by African slaves who were imported by the Spanish to work the sugar cane fields. Finally, Puerto Rico's long association with the United States has resulted in a kind of "Spanglish," or mixed Spanish and English, that you might hear especially in tourist areas. http://ezinearticles.com/?Puerto-Ric...ce?&id=3091738

[wetibbe]

I don't know the exact lineage of my Puerto Rican network partner but judging from her language she surely was born in the USA , By clarification she has a man. I'm not in any way involved other than a friend and partner.

FYI my spouse of over 50 years was Spanish by birth, She became a French National. My son was born, providentially, in Las Palmas, Gran Canary, Spain and my daughter in Pau France. My wife was a Catalan whose ancestors dated back 26,000, years to Iberian culture. Catalan was 90%b Latin.

Just for clarification I want to amplify again my exact distinction between the good and decent people of so called Latin America and the dregs of society that are flooding in here presently. The good and decent people do not jump the border.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

I find it amusing that most of my closest (in linage) relatives were born and still live in Brazil. I don't consider them Latino, they are from my grandmother's side who was originally from Poland. She remarried when my grandfather, who was Irish, died while they lived in New York. She was quite a bit younger than my grandfather and later married and had two more children with her new Brazilian husband. They don't have any Spanish or Indian in them, just the same as many other who live in all of the countries south of the USA. They're just Brazilians.

[wetibbe]

I lived in South America back in the 1960's. Then in the 1980's I was a special representative for a major manufacturer of mining and drilling equipment. I was down there 2 weeks of every month for 3 years and visited 32 countries.

Every country is different. Brazil has a history similar to the USA except that it was populated by Portuguese and the language is Portuguese. Portugal BTW is also Iberico same as Spain. From my observations Brazilians would speak to Spanish speakers and the Spanish speakers spoke back in Spanish and everyone understood just fine. Argentina was populated by English and Italians and parts of Buenos Aires looks like Paris, France. Virtually all of the original native Americans were exterminated as were they in Chile. Paraguay has a very large German population. Bolivia is predominately native Indian. The Guyana's were British and French. Colombia speaks a good Spanish similar to Spain, populated by a mixture of various cultures. During my time in Venezuela the white Venezuelans were more racist than we were here. After WW2 Italians came flooding into Venezuela in droves. They were everywhere taking jobs. The Government started sweeps, banging on doors and trucking them down to LaGuaira, the port, sending them back on ships.