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Old 11-12-2012, 10:21 AM
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Jeanfromfillmore Jeanfromfillmore is offline
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Default Americans need not apply, we're not worth much

I lived in a UCLA dorm for three years and saw first hand what was happening and that was 15 years ago. Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening. Those graduating our high schools can't compete to even get in many of our universities and the schools prefer those that pay more. Wake up people, an uneducated society gets taken over. Almost all that come here internationally never leave and take the better working positions. Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!! If you don't believe this you aren't wanting to see it and pretend it doesn't exsist. It does. Why should they bother with immigration when they can just come through our school system and never leave. But some would say that's ok, because it's legal. Well, then get ready for a country you dont' recognize. After all isn't their objective to give this country to the world? Why should Americans have it? We're all immigrants, and so the propaganda goes. Yes, no one talks about the impact of our schools on this country unless they're trying to throw more money at it.



International enrollment at US colleges is climbing, new figures show


Want to see how quickly the look and business model of American public universities are changing? Visit a place like Indiana University. Five years ago, there were 87 undergraduates from China on its idyllic, All-American campus in Bloomington. This year: 2,224.
New figures out Monday show international enrollment at U.S. colleges and universities grew nearly 6 percent last year, driven by a 23-percent increase from China, even as total enrollment was leveling out. But perhaps more revealing is where much of the growth is concentrated: big, public land-grant colleges, notably in the Midwest.
The numbers offer a snapshot of the transformation of America's famous heartland public universities in an era of diminished state support. Of the 25 campuses with the most international students, a dozen have increased international enrollment more than 40 percent in just five years, according to data collected by the Institute of International Education. All but one are public, and they include Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State, Ohio State and the Universities of Minnesota and Illinois. Indiana's international enrollment now surpasses 6,000, or about 15 percent of the student body, and in Illinois, the flagship Urbana-Champaign campus has nearly 9,000 -- second nationally only to the University of Southern California.
To be sure, such ambitious universities value the global vibe and perspectives international students bring to their Midwestern campuses. But there's no doubt what else is driving the trend: International students typically pay full out-of-state tuition and aren't awarded financial aid.
Public universities hit hard by state funding cuts "really are starting to realize the tuition from international students makes it possible for them to continue offering scholarships and financial aid to domestic students," said Peggy Blumenthal, senior counselor at IIE, the private nonprofit that publishes the annual "Open Doors" study.
Nationally, there were 765,000 foreign students on U.S. campuses last year, with China (158,000) the top source, followed by India, South Korea and Saudi Arabia (the fastest growing thanks to an ambitious scholarship program by the Saudi government). Altogether, the Department of Commerce calculates they contribute $22.7 billion to the economy, and many stay after graduation. For the first time in a dozen years, according to IIE, there were more foreign undergraduates than graduate students.
Indiana charges in-state students $10,034 for tuition and non-residents $31,484, so the economic appeal is straightforward. Still, out-of-state recruiting -- international or domestic -- is always sensitive for public universities, fueling charges that kids of in-state taxpayers are denied available slots.
At one level, that's true: About one-third of Indiana students come from outside the state, and for this year it rejected 4,164 in-state applicants. But while conceivably it could enroll more Indiana residents, without the out-of-staters' tuition dollars they would likely have to pay more. Indiana and others figure more of their out-of-staters may as well be international, arguing you can't prepare students for a global economy without exposing them to students from abroad.
David Zaret, Indiana's vice president for international affairs, says the school's interest in international students is educational, not "nakedly financial." He says IU could fill its out-of-state slots domestically, and points out that unlike some schools IU doesn't charge international students more than domestic non-residents, so there's no extra financial incentive. He also says there's been no particular effort to recruit Chinese students; he credits the extraordinary growth to hundreds of IU alumni now in China spreading the word. In fact, he said in a brief phone conversation from Argentina, "I'd like to see more balance," with more students from places such as South America and Turkey.
While international students bring revenue, there are also costs, obliging universities to expand services like international advising, English instruction, and even targeted mental health services. There is growing concern about the isolation of international students on campus. Expanding numbers may not help, just making it easier to find a bubble. One recent study found 40 percent of international students reported no close American friends.
Kedao Wang, a Shanghai native and one of about 6,400 overseas students at the University of Michigan, said his experience has been excellent but agrees growing numbers don't solve the isolation problem. Virtually all Chinese students struggle at least somewhat to fit in, due to language and cultural barriers. Wang, who goes by Keven, bought football season tickets all four years and loves the games, but rarely sees fellow Chinese students at Michigan Stadium. When he first arrived he tried not to hang out only with Chinese students, but his social life has since moved in that direction.
Still, he says, the shy students who once studied in the United States on Chinese government scholarships have been replaced by better-off Chinese who pay their own way and arrive more familiar and comfortable with Western culture.
Wang says Chinese students are under no illusions why they're recruited: "It's a market economy. There are people who want this who are willing to pay." Still, he'd like to see schools award more financial aid to internationals. Michigan non-resident tuition and fees ($41,870 for upperclassmen) are hugely expensive even for prosperous Chinese families, but are high enough that the international students who come here aren't socio-economically diverse (only a handful of U.S. colleges offer international students the same aid as domestic students).
"There are so many bright students in China," he said. "If you can give just a few of them a scholarship, they would come and succeed."
A U.S. education is still highly desired by Chinese students, but Wang says "10 years ago people only knew the top schools." Now they're looking beyond the Ivy League and learning more about the range of options (including, he said, the fact that some U.S. colleges are terrible).
"I think that's important," Blumenthal said of the trend of international students moving beyond the most famous schools and into state schools, community colleges and liberal arts colleges. "They need to know that America's as diverse as we know it is."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/12...#ixzz2C2JJ12tO
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2012, 01:02 PM
DerailAmnesty.com DerailAmnesty.com is offline
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[QUOTE=Jeanfromfillmore;22112]I lived in a UCLA dorm for three years and saw first hand what was happening and that was 15 years ago. Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening. Those graduating our high schools can't compete to even get in many of our universities and the schools prefer those that pay more. Wake up people, an uneducated society gets taken over. Almost all that come here internationally never leave and take the better working positions. Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!! If you don't believe this you aren't wanting to see it and pretend it doesn't exsist. It does. Why should they bother with immigration when they can just come through our school system and never leave. But some would say that's ok, because it's legal. Well, then get ready for a country you dont' recognize. After all isn't their objective to give this country to the world? Why should Americans have it? We're all immigrants, and so the propaganda goes. Yes, no one talks about the impact of our schools on this country unless they're trying to throw more money at it.

I probably couldn't disagree with what you wrote, above, more. Firstly, you've said several things that are simply inaccurate. Including ...

1) Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening.

Actually Jean, the large majority of students at those 3 campuses are Americans. There is, unquestionably, a considerable overrepresentation of Asians at those schools, like at almost every college in California, but most of them are Asian-Americans. Even at SC, a school that gets a considerable number of Chinese students from overseas. "Americans need not apply" is just a gross misstatement. On every campus listed in that article you linked, Americans comprise the LARGE majority of students.

2) Almost all that come here internationally never leave and take the better working positions.

This statement is just patently false. The large majority don't qualify for permanent legal residence. Most foreign college graduates are only permitted to stay an extra year after graduation for the purposes of getting practical field-related job experience, then they are required to return home.

These kids are differently situated than "DREAM Act" candidates. They are not going to grab some job waiting tables or work at a fast food restaurant w/ a stolen Soc. Sec. number. They are expected by their families to work in the profession for which they prepared. Most go home or enroll in grad school.

You don't land a job at Apple, IBM or some other major corporation w/ identification papers you picked up in McCarthur Park.

When I was working overseas, I lived (for a time) in a foreigners dormitory (They group foreigners up in Japan to keep an eye on them, and b/c few Japanese landlords will actually rent to "gaijin") There were a number of Japanese young people living there w/ us (voluntarily) b/c they were afraid their English skills and American socialization would otherwise wear off. Almost all had graduated from four-year colleges in the U.S., and had already exhausted the one-year-after-college time allowance. They were madly scrambling around to re-attain some method of legal residence in the U.S. H1-B visas are limited and they've only become even harder to get since 9/11.

This situation, above, is what Mitt Romney was referring to when he spoke about "stapling a green card" to the bottom of some foreign students' college diplomas. Right now, we mass import uneducated illegal aliens from Latin America and send home foreign students who have completed degrees. It is a ridiculous, self-defeating situation for our country. We exclude many of the terribly capable (and potential taxpayers) and welcome a bunch of WIC recipients and overbreeders.

C) Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!!

Almost completely false. Foreigners who studied at colleges here and then open American businesses, if they manage to obtain residency (often times by marriage, faked or legitimate), VERY commonly hire Americans, and they do so for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they want to put up an "American" image. Other times, they do so b/c they desperately want to employ people who understand the local culture, American peculiarities/customs/idiosyncracies/socialization, and most commonly b/c most of the available folks who possess the skills they require are college-educated Americans.

We're not talking about a factory, car wash, tree-trimming service or restaurant (where they pack in illiterate El Salvadoreans and folks from Oaxaca), but a tech-related, educational or professional endeavor. I know b/c I've seen them. I've worked in such businesses. One of the longest-standing gigs I had was as an in-house attorney for an Israeli immigrant who started four businesses serving children w/ developmental disabilities. He employed approximately 150 people, two of whom I believe were other Israelis. Further, I know for a fact he hired me b/c, among other things, I am an American Jew. He wanted to be able to trust me and have me explain a thousand things about interactions and specific situations (law related and non-law related) that only someone who grew up in the United States would understand.

Additionally, I was employed for a few years, back in the 90's, by a pair of immigrant Korean-owned businesses. About half their work staff was Korean-American or Korean immigrant, however, they made a point of hiring Americans (mostly white, that's commonly important w/ the Far East Asians) to "show off" to their customers/clients. Native-born U.S. citizens w/ degrees are very "prestigious" from their perspective and we were all treated and compensated better than the Koreans they employed.
________

Insofar as public colleges admitting more foreign students, so that they can make up for budget shortfalls in states w/ financial problems, that is 100% A-OK w/ me. It makes complete financial sense to bring in a student who will pay in $30K in tuition, rather than one who will pay $10K.

From my perspective, a perfect universe in California would include every illegal alien and anchor baby enrolled at a community college, Cal State or UC being dismissed from the campuses they are attending, and being replaced w/ academically qualified students who legally enter from Peru, Taiwan, China, India, Iran, Israel, etc. Far better that than taxing Californians w/ Prop 30. Let's reduce the taxation burden, forget the provisions for financial aid for illegal aliens, and invite more qualified folks from overseas to attend the schools for which they academically qualify and can afford.
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Last edited by DerailAmnesty.com; 11-12-2012 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:29 PM
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Jeanfromfillmore Jeanfromfillmore is offline
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I was wondering how long it would take you to pop your head out. It wouldn't matter what I wrote, you wouldn't agree with it. You have a problem with anything I write, yes the sky is blue Sam. Since you don't and may never have children, it isn't a problem that there may not be a place for them in our schools. When I mentioned businesses, I was thinking small businesses, where more often than not the family members, legal or not, are the employees; especially where I live. The dorm where I lived (with 375 residents) had 45% Asian mostly form China and that was 15 yrs ago. Most already had jobs before they granduated. That's gone up. And as far as those that graduate not leaving, you're a fool if you dont' know that most don't.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:57 PM
DerailAmnesty.com DerailAmnesty.com is offline
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On this particular occasion, Jean, your problem is not the low opinion I have of you. Rather, it is the substance of what you’ve asserted, most of which is simply wrong. These things are not a matter of opinion, they’re easily verifiable.

When you say Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening, that’s just not right.

You certainly don’t have to take my word for it. Here are the statistics for the schools you listed. The LARGE majority of students on the campuses are Americans:

USC - 12% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...123961#enrolmt

UCLA - 6% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...110662#enrolmt

Stanford - 8% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...243744#enrolmt


Further, when you opine that Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!!, that’s wrong also.

I can assure you, Jean, that Google employs many people who are not Russians, the large majority of folks hired by Intel have not been Hungarians, and that most people working for Hovnanian Homebuilders are not Iraqis. Don’t believe it? Try walking into one of their offices or places of business. Those are all California entities.

Hey, if you like, trot across the Yahoo! campus at 24th and Broadway in Santa Monica. I do all the time. It’s less than two miles from my home. If promise you that if you do, you’re going to see a majority of people working there aren’t Chinese.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:35 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerailAmnesty.com View Post
On this particular occasion, Jean, your problem is not the low opinion I have of you. Rather, it is the substance of what youíve asserted, most of which is simply wrong. These things are not a matter of opinion, theyíre easily verifiable.

When you say Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening, thatís just not right.

You certainly donít have to take my word for it. Here are the statistics for the schools you listed. The LARGE majority of students on the campuses are Americans:

USC - 12% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...123961#enrolmt

UCLA - 6% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...110662#enrolmt

Stanford - 8% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...243744#enrolmt


Further, when you opine that Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!!, thatís wrong also.

I can assure you, Jean, that Google employs many people who are not Russians, the large majority of folks hired by Intel have not been Hungarians, and that most people working for Hovnanian Homebuilders are not Iraqis. Donít believe it? Try walking into one of their offices or places of business. Those are all California entities.

Hey, if you like, trot across the Yahoo! campus at 24th and Broadway in Santa Monica. I do all the time. Itís less than two miles from my home. If promise you that if you do, youíre going to see a majority of people working there arenít Chinese.
She has a point about many of the colleges seeking more foreign students. The stats may be as you say now, but the schools are actively seeking more foreigners. One of my kids was passed over at Berkley for foreign students who had lesser grades, and that was nearly four years ago. Since then, there has been several articles I've read, and especially so lately, about the USC and others marketing stronger to foreigners. I suppose it matters a little where you are in terms of what you see on campus, but I am getting a whiff of trend. It's not that hard to believe either. Job gains by foreigners and immigrants have been reported to be strong this past few years also. I don't think that the architects of this immigration scheme care if they are illegals or legals, and when the economy is down and you have a tough time selling congress on raising caps on foreign workers, it makes sense they would market the schools in place of that.

the foreigners hiring thing is true, but largely to the extent of low tec verses hi tech. Foreigners who get a degree in business management or accounting or something akin to that, and then open a market, restaurant, or motel, will generally hire other immigrants, and often from their own origin. I see it alot in grocery stores owned by asians, even the bigger, newer supermarket types. All fellow asians and a few latino.
Now high tech is a bit different. You're right that they will hire anyone.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:00 PM
DerailAmnesty.com DerailAmnesty.com is offline
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Here's the problem w/ what you asserted -

The "points" authored by Jean, that you are attempting to defend, are not what she stated. Here's what she did state: 1) Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening. 2) Almost all that come here internationally never leave and take the better working positions. 3) Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!!

These assertions are simply wrong. Demonstrably so.

Had any "point" she made been one of the ones you described above, your contentions would bear some weight. They just weren't, however.

Further, I failed to mention earlier: Those graduating our high schools can't compete to even get in many of our universities ... That one's wrong too, Davi. If you think I'm mistaken, please give me even a partial list of those American universities wherein U.S. high school graduates can't compete for admission.

You can forget the examples she listed, if you like. Can you name ANY (legitimately accredited) four-year institution in the U.S. wherein foreign students make up even half the student body? A college or university, I'll accept either.
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