You owe, big time.

[DerailAmnesty.com]

Originally Posted by ilbegone

I don't think it's really rewarding illegal families. Those who are ultimately responsible for personal illegality will be deported, those who came here with something other than the motivations of a child

Of course it is, and under the circumstances you have described, here's how it plays out:

Pablo and Juanita decide they want a better life for themselves and their children Paco, Pedro and Pepe. The parents decide that, in pursuit of this goal, they will unlawfully relocate to the United States and engage in whatever law violations will be necessary to perpetuate the family's existence there.

Pablo and Juanita sneak through Pima County, obtain jobs after settling themselves in an American city, and 6 months later manage to get the kids across the border, as well.

The family avoids detection for X period of time, at the conclusion of which they are "caught." Deportation proceedings for illegal residency commence immediately and it is quickly discovered that Paco and Juanita's children (now adults) were brought in as minors. Resultingly, Paco, Pedro and Pepe are granted permanent resident status, and Pablo and Juanita are deported back home (never to return).

As a direct result of their multiple law violations in pursuance of "The Better Life" objective (Conspiracy, Unlicensed Driving, Fraud, Identity Theft, Employment For Compensation While An Unlawful Resident, etc.) Pablo and Juanita have been rewarded with the following (at a bare minimum):

1. Legal residence in the U.S. for their children.
2. American citizenship for any and all of their grandchildren and family members produced by the grandchildren/later generations.
3. Multiple family members with the ability to obtain U.S. dollars and send them to Pablo and Juanita in the home country.


Essentially, the concept you authored provides the family a smaller reward than the amnesty in '86 or the Bush/Obama "comprehensive immigration reform" scheme, but the pay off for Pablo and Juanita's criminal undertaking is still considerable.

[ilbegone]

Originally Posted by DerailAmnesty.com

Of course it is, and under the circumstances you have described, here's how it plays out:

Pablo and Juanita decide they want a better life for themselves and their children Paco, Pedro and Pepe. The parents decide that, in pursuit of this goal, they will unlawfully relocate to the United States and engage in whatever law violations will be necessary to perpetuate the family's existence there.

Pablo and Juanita sneak through Pima County, obtain jobs after settling themselves in an American city, and 6 months later manage to get the kids across the border, as well.

The family avoids detection for X period of time, at the conclusion of which they are "caught." Deportation proceedings for illegal residency commence immediately and it is quickly discovered that Paco and Juanita's children (now adults) were brought in as minors. Resultingly, Paco, Pedro and Pepe are granted permanent resident status, and Pablo and Juanita are deported back home (never to return).

As a direct result of their multiple law violations in pursuance of "The Better Life" objective (Conspiracy, Unlicensed Driving, Fraud, Identity Theft, Employment For Compensation While An Unlawful Resident, etc.) Pablo and Juanita have been rewarded with the following (at a bare minimum):

1. Legal residence in the U.S. for their children.
2. American citizenship for any and all of their grandchildren and family members produced by the grandchildren/later generations.
3. Multiple family members with the ability to obtain U.S. dollars and send them to Pablo and Juanita in the home country.


Essentially, the concept you authored provides the family a smaller reward than the amnesty in '86 or the Bush/Obama "comprehensive immigration reform" scheme, but the pay off for Pablo and Juanita's criminal undertaking is still considerable.

You have the right to disagree with me, that's fine.

When the Mexican grandmother dies, the family is no longer Mexican. In my scenario, grandma ain't around, and familial connections become a distant memory.

Besides, at least until the last few years (with the problems in Mexico becoming intolerable), Mexicans didn't come here for a better life in America. They came to make money and return to Mexico. But they get wrapped up in the convenience of Walmart and rarely make enough money to buy that ranch. The weeks slip into years, and after a while, while not really liking America, they themselves have changed to where Mexico is no longer "comfortable".

And I'm not denying that Mexicans game our system or that there are not criminals among them, they do and there are.

But the adults have the memory of Mexico, the children don't.

If you actually read what I proposed, the criminals and slackers among those brought here as children get sent back with or in addition to their parents. The others are the ones I propose permanent non voting residency for.

[DerailAmnesty.com]

Originally Posted by ilbegone

When the Mexican grandmother dies, the family is no longer Mexican. In my scenario, grandma ain't around, and familial connections become a distant memory.

The question is not whether the family is "Mexican" or not. In fact, under your plan, the majority of the family isn't (later offspring will soon outnumber the original nuclear family that entered unlawfully). They're either American permanent legal residents or U.S. citizens.

The question is whether or not your scheme rewards families who engage in illegal alien conduct.

It undoubtedly does. Above, two family members get sent back (wealthier than they came in, and with quality prospects for receiving assistance from El Norte that they didn't have before). Meanwhile every other family member has landed the lottery prize of life in the wealthiest, most egalitarian nation on Earth.

And the only reason any of this fell into their laps is because Pablo and Juanita undertook premeditated and systematic criminal activities in our nation.

Originally Posted by ilbegone

But the adults have the memory of Mexico, the children don't.

You mean like these children? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ9mpBSqZs0

[ilbegone]

Needed deletion....

[DerailAmnesty.com]

Originally Posted by ilbegone

I'm not going to hit the link designated "these children".

If someone looked long and hard enough, they would find a picture of your mother with her coochie hanging out in the most embarrassing of situations.

And don't think that women of your mother's age didn't calculate their benefits concerning "love".

So spare me the gratuitous photography or text and either engage in meaningful discussion or ignore me.

Gratuitous? Coochie? Mom?

Wow, where did that come from?

Dude, chill. I'm analyzing what you proposed, not deriding you.

Since you appear to be more than a bit sensitive about this topic (this is the second time you snapped at me in this thread), I'll keep this real short and not post anything further:

Your plan rewards families of illegal aliens for knowingly violating our laws. And a lot of the beneficiaries of the residency rights your plan doles out, don't feel a great deal of appreciation or allegiance to the U.S. Further, the people who will be saddled with the expenses and imposition of uninvited foreign nationals now permanently amongst us, that your plan results in, are American citizen taxpayers who have done nothing wrong.

Absolutely best case scenario with your plan - In a few generations all traces of loyalties to Raza separatism, allegiance to foreign nations and disrespect for America are absent from the progeny of the illegals you let stay. Further, all offspring of people your plan provided amnesty to are educated, self-sufficient and paying more than their fair share in taxes.

That's all great, assuming everything works out perfectly, except for one thing. You, me and everyone who reads this thread today will have been dead for many years.

I have an alternate proposal: Throw illegals out and permanently bar them from readmission to the United States. Then reduce legal immigration into this country from Mexico and other major violators of our nation's sovereignty, by two thirds.

Absolutely best case scenario with my proposal - The U.S. is no longer a dumping ground for the impoverished, excess population that Latin America sees fit to send our way. And perhaps most significantly, you, me and everyone reading this get to have a few years wherein we actually reside in America again and are spared from having to cohabitate, for the rest of our days, with the offspring of criminals your scheme turns into our permanent neighbors.

Have a nice day and go in peace.

[ilbegone]

SZ,

I snapped at you once, which was today, the first delivery was a reply to twoller. You may have taken an earlier assertion to the effect that I'm not going to be badgered as a "snap". And I saw that when you read what I had to say to you today, you left for a while to work your mouth around and get some composure to word things a little better in your replying post.

I'll tell you where I'm coming from, I don't think you will get it.

We were eating breakfast this morning when an ancient Mexican tune softly came over the speakers in the restaurant. Both Elena and the much younger Mexican woman serving us, in their different places, began singing quietly to the song. AS I was eating my Huevos con chorizo and beans with torn pieces of tortilla, I mused how at the same time these women were much alike and yet had such a chasm between them.

Elena's father was from a Mexico which is no more yet will always be. A much older and long deceased brother was a tail gunner over Germany. As a child, Elena and her young cousins had been run across the highway and over the tracks by adult white men simply for wanting to get ice cream from a "white" establishment.

On the other hand, I despise the Mexicans who took over a former trade and the presumptuousness of many of them. As a rule, I don't trust Mexicans, and when any of them address me as "my friend" one too many times, which is more than once, I become suspicious. However, as I have stated here before, I'm in a weird place in my head with Mexican Nationals - all at the same time I love them and I hate them all.

Yet I've also been around many of their adult children - people with all sorts of outlooks, personalities, and various proclivities. However, regardless of what type of people they individually are, they are not their parents.

I am curious about them all, I learn as much as I can about them. "They" are not all the same, particularly through the extended generations.

Yet to you and twoller, it seems every one of "them" is a gang banging spray painting "anchor baby" reconquista menace who habitually pisses in public while swigging forty ouncers.


So, I have to extend my middle finger when I'm blanketed with "amnesty for criminals" and directed to a youtube entry which is sure to feature a bunch of brown knuckle heads.

You insulted me when you did that. To me you are suggesting that crap like that is a part of my household and the extended family as well.

There's not much difference between your stereotyping and those who bandy about pictures of white trailer trash surrounded by a mountain of empty beer cans as if you personally had an address there. And I stick to my assertion that if someone looks long and hard enough, there will surface an embarrassing picture of someone in your family, maybe even of you.

As an addendum, I will admit that going over your last two posts again they weren't quite like I took them, nor have I hit the youtube link.