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  #11  
Old 03-20-2011, 08:08 AM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by Rim05 View Post
It is my opinion that in-fighting has caused more harm to what we started some 5 or 6 years ago than anything else. I am willing to listen to anyone who can convince me that I am wrong.
I don't think that's true. The repbulicans and democrats have infighting all the time, yet they still live on. I think our problems stem from usual human attention span unless stimulated and supported by large donor bases, media support, and political intervention. I'd allege the illegals would be in our shoes right now had there not been those factors I mentioned.
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2011, 08:49 AM
Rim05 Rim05 is offline
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Sorry, but I am still not convinced. I will admit that I have never been part of the leader ship but I can see.
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:02 PM
Minuteman Project Minuteman Project is offline
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Default Minuteman Project Supports San Jose Police Chief Moore

AyatollahGondolah.

I meet and converse with law enforcement officers almost every day. All of them bring up the same problem about enforcing our laws: allocation of resources available to enforce our laws.

Chief Moore is in a predicament that no one can fix without either cutting law enforcement priorities to the public in general, or cutting back on enforcement of U.S. immigration laws.

San Jose stands to lose 300 officers. That is an enormous loss of resources...a loss that requires Chief Moore to spread his troops very thin in the daily combat against crime. The federal government is the true villain here. The federal government deliberately denies the funding necessary to supplement local law enforcement with USBP and/or ICE agents. Then, when a state or local government attempts to pass laws to enforce immigration laws themselves, our President files suet against them to prevent them from doing so!

Every soingle police officer, deputy, or FBI/DEA agent I have ever talked to appreciates the support of the American public in the efforts to stop the rampant illegal alien invasion of our country and the accompanying criminal drug cartel influence that is rapidly creeping into every major city.

The most counter-productive thing we could do is attack our law enforcement officials and blame them for things they cannot fix. Even if the officers resign in protest, their successors still can do nothing when the federal government continues to interfere with efforts at the local levels to enforce American laws.

This is a predicament perhaps never before seen in America. Our response and remedy should be to continue replacing members of the U.S. Congress, Senate and state governors as quickly as possible to reverse their cavalier and reckless disregard for immigration law enforcement.

As far as the California Coalition for Immigration Reform, William Gheen's ALIPAC, and Jeff Schwilk's now defunct San Diego Minutemen, I hold my ground in my accusations of their lack of integrity or character. These organizations are not influential forces that will provide for a solution to the illegal alien dilemma.

I have no regrets at suing some of the sinister elements in our movement (and winning all four suits), or having one arrested and put in the slammer for six months.

The alternative would have been that the Minuteman Project would have been stolen by a bunch of hoodlums...some of whom who were convicted by a jury of 10 men and 2 women last June of US Postal fraud, federal bank fraud, federal bank theft, and violation of federal internet laws.

The rule of law applies to all of us on U.S. territory...not just illegal aliens.

If I did not bring legal action against the bandits attempting to steal my organization, then they would have seized it mercilessly and plundered it of every dollar being donated to it by a concerned public for their own personal financial gain. To make matters worse, some of you gullible followers believed every lie the witch-hunting hijackers blasted out on the internet, causing the MMP and other similar groups to stall in their abilities to move the illegal immigration issue to the forefront for the past four years.

The racial supremacy group La Raza has gained much ground in those four lost years, including a Congressional grant of about $15 million...something us law abiding groups cannot not get from our Congress.

If we immigration activists despise the rule of law, then that makes us no better than the illegal aliens and their sympathizers who routinely ignore our laws.

Furthermore, If I may quote Rim05:
"It is my opinion that in-fighting has caused more harm to what we started some 5 or 6 years ago than anything else."


Keep listening to the blatant propaganda of groups like ALIPAC, Schwilk's old SDMM, and CCIR and you will be "goose stepped" right into the final demise of the movement to bring our nation back under the rule of law.

I rest my case.

Jim Gilchrist, President, The Minuteman Project
-operating within the law to support enforcement of the law-
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:46 PM
Eagle1 Eagle1 is offline
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I would love to hear an interview of Mr Gilchrist done on SOS radio. Furthermore I would expect that the interview be done in a respectful and considerate manner but that all the "hard" questions that are seldom touched be asked.

Lets look at some of these. There have been accusations of selling endorsements for profit. There have also been allegations that monies donated to the MMP are not used for anything other than personal use.

What relationships does MMP have with the Diener group and others?

Jim's opinions on CCIR, Alipac, Jeff Schwilk and others.

These are the types of questions that should be asked.

Where is the MMP headed?

Anybody interested?
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2011, 03:26 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Jim,

I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on you here.

The chief has gone way beyond simple economics of his workforce, to politicizing his department policy. I cite:
San Jose police officers are looking to greatly improve its frayed relationship with immigrant communities amid allegations of overaggressive policing and racial profiling. Moore, for example, has in his short tenure as chief discontinued a policy in which cars of unlicensed drivers stopped for minor traffic violations were impounded for a month -- a policy many felt unfairly targeted the undocumented Latino community.

Quote:
Looking to reassure its own large and growing Latino community, San Jose has long broadcast that it does not participate in immigration raids. And officers are ordered not to investigate someone's immigration status during arrests.
You see? He's more interested in not offending the illegal population than he is defending the rest of the citizens from unlicensed drivers. He's also ordered his officers not to investigate immigration status. Can you say sanctuary city?
You are a seasoned veteran of the propaganda war, and I'm certain you can see it when you read it. I urge you not to let your anger at Barbara coe blind you to the other enemy. I won't fault you for being skeptical where she's involved. I know there's some history, and I also know she can be quick on the condemnation side. But don't side with the chief when the evidence shows he's more interested in spreading propaganda than he is conveying economic constraints, just because she sees that too. She can be right on this, and still be a jackass on other issues.

Quote:
Furthermore, If I may quote Rim05:
"It is my opinion that in-fighting has caused more harm to what we started some 5 or 6 years ago than anything else."

Keep listening to the blatant propaganda of groups like ALIPAC, Schwilk's old SDMM, and CCIR and you will be "goose stepped" right into the final demise of the movement to bring our nation back under the rule of law
I don't have any love for schwilk, and I was not aware that SDMM was defunct, but last I heard they still had a clean-up effort going on the hwy. I am certainly no fan of people who try and get 100 x more mileage out of their deeds than they actually perform, and I'm not afraid to say that, but I still commend them for that they do, when they do it. Jeff is an excitable boy, and his mouth has left me wondering whether his value has exceeded his harm, but I still never side with the propagandists on the other side.
My opinion of Gheen is about the same as Schwilk, but I won't say the same about all of the people that collect around ALIPAC. Good people in the company of a few jackasses doesn't make them all jackasses. Likewise for CCIR people.
I'm no goose-stepper, and I've been apologizing to injured people over my association with Nightingale for the same reason. Nightingale's a cockroach. But I still don't side with our opposition just because she's involved. If I have to; I condemn them both at the same time

Last edited by Ayatollahgondola; 03-20-2011 at 06:50 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-20-2011, 03:31 PM
Rim05 Rim05 is offline
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It is my opinion that in-fighting has caused more harm to what we started some 5 or 6 years ago than anything else. Ego and jealously are the main problems of the past. Also, some of the most active of us have grown older and it is not possible for us to continue. Seems most of our younger simply do not believe things are as bad as we see them to be. I think things are worse than ever and getting worse.
I am willing to listen to anyone who can convince me that I am wrong.
I hope no one will take my post to mean any certain person or group. It is just my opinion from afar. My own reason for not being street active any more (most people know this) is because I found it too difficult to find a ride. I do not live near very many members. I drive only when I must any more.
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2011, 06:26 PM
Eagle1 Eagle1 is offline
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Rim05 your contributions in terms of participation and dedication are unquestionable. Believe me I fully understand not being able to go places as often as I used to.

I would hope to have you join us on SOS radio some time.
The reason we created it was so that we could gather as a group from our homes over the telephone.

I would love to hear what you have to say on SOS radio.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2011, 06:39 PM
Eagle1 Eagle1 is offline
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"The most counter-productive thing we could do is attack our law enforcement officials and blame them for things they cannot fix. Even if the officers resign in protest, their successors still can do nothing when the federal government continues to interfere with efforts at the local levels to enforce American laws."


Jim there is a world of difference between heads of police like Mr Moore and Sheriff Joe Arpaio. I know that we would all like to see more like Joe Arpaio and none like Moore.

I would also like to see you come around more to our side of the issue.

It seems of late that you are more on the side of the pro-illegals.
I understand compassion but we must unwaveringly stand for what we believe in.

This is our land, our country and those who make it easier for illegals to stay
dishonor those who gave everything to secure it.
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  #19  
Old 03-21-2011, 06:04 AM
wetibbe wetibbe is offline
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Default Outside perspective.

This is a California thing, and I'm not one. But maybe I can offer some outside perspective from someone who does not have a dog in this fight without sounding like a referee.

Infighting has definitely split up several good groups in my region. Going way back, years, to Farmingville, Long Island. The group leader invited Chris Simcox to speak. About 1/2 were in favor and 1/2 had a thing about Simcox and objected so strenuously that they "walked" splitting the group. It was downhill from there and not long after that the whole organization folded and closed their website.

I met Simcox later at another group meeting in New Jersey and I had an uneasy feeling. Although he wasn't implicated two New Jersey groups came to loggerheads and relations cooled to the frigid. In that case a new group, in a different town, was supposed to be a satellite , subordinate, to the main group. Things fell apart when the new group began soliciting donations for themselves. The groups split.

Same thing in Connecticut. A group of activists in Darien, in the South, organized and coupled with a group up North in Danbury. The Darien leader performed surveillance of all McDonald's restaurants in Connecticut then printed his report. The Northern group didn't like some aspects and decided to split, which they did. Relations and cooperation cooled to the point on non-cooperation and communication.

Of course everyone knows the history of the Simcox Minuteman breakup and demise.

On the matter of police and politician attitudes, we here have the Nations champion scofflaw, sanctuary city Mayor. I would like to say that generally police and Mayoral attitudes nationwide follow party lines, Democrats liberal, Republicans conservative. However, this one is variously a Democrat, then a Republican then an Independent, depending on which window of opportunity is open and which path offers the least resistance.

Rodney King said: "Can't we all just get along" ? And the answer is no - not on your life. It just isn't the nature of the beast. It's one of Murphy's Laws. If they can find something to argue about and be disagreeable - they will.

Last edited by wetibbe; 03-21-2011 at 06:11 AM.
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  #20  
Old 03-21-2011, 06:41 AM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetibbe View Post
Infighting has definitely split up several good groups in my region. Going way back, years, to Farmingville, Long Island. The group leader invited Chris Simcox to speak. About 1/2 were in favor and 1/2 had a thing about Simcox and objected so strenuously that they "walked" splitting the group. It was downhill from there and not long after that the whole organization folded and closed their website....

....Rodney King said: "Can't we all just get along" ? And the answer is no - not on your life. It just isn't the nature of the beast. It's one of Murphy's Laws. If they can find something to argue about and be disagreeable - they will.
And my point is, if at first you don't get along, don't let that get in the way of your work ethic. Do it alone; find other people; but do it
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