Eleven States Ready To Adopt Arizona Immigration Laws

[rs232c]

While America is a nation of immigrants,

This phrase has confused me for years. I had always believed that we were a nation of citizens not of immigrants.

As for myself I am a sixth generation American and my siblings children the seventh. At what point do we become citizens and no longer immigrants?

I can't see it to mean 'America is a nation built by immigrants' because I recall the study that said 83% of our country was built by citizens and 14% non-citizens.

I have a problem understanding that 'America is a nation that was born of immigrants, therefore we have always come from immigrants, and will always be of immigrants', because the same would be true for the Indian population, which I understand still have soverign nations and are all citizens at birth now anyway.

And last it certainly doesn't make any sense to me to be a citizen in a nation of immigrants, that just doesn't seem to mean anything at all. In my understanding it is valid to be a citizen and 'used to be an immigrant' in a nation of citizens, but not both concurrently.

In my pea-sized brain the only thing that does make sense to me is that it is a policitally correct phrase that defines the status of immigrant and the status of citizenship to be one in the same and indistingusihable.

Are they?

[Jeanfromfillmore]

Originally Posted by rs232c

This phrase has confused me for years. I had always believed that we were a nation of citizens not of immigrants.

As for myself I am a sixth generation American and my siblings children the seventh. At what point do we become citizens and no longer immigrants?

I can't see it to mean 'America is a nation built by immigrants' because I recall the study that said 83% of our country was built by citizens and 14% non-citizens.

I have a problem understanding that 'America is a nation that was born of immigrants, therefore we have always come from immigrants, and will always be of immigrants', because the same would be true for the Indian population, which I understand still have soverign nations and are all citizens at birth now anyway.

And last it certainly doesn't make any sense to me to be a citizen in a nation of immigrants, that just doesn't seem to mean anything at all. In my understanding it is valid to be a citizen and 'used to be an immigrant' in a nation of citizens, but not both concurrently.

In my pea-sized brain the only thing that does make sense to me is that it is a policitally correct phrase that defines the status of immigrant and the status of citizenship to be one in the same and indistingusihable.

Are they?

I agree with you 100%. The phrase "nation of immigrants" belittles all the that the citizens have in this country and have invested to make it so, as though someone who has just arrived is equal to someone who created Mount Rushmore, or designed the Chrysler Building. Americans invested in what is America, and immigrants aren't truly Americans until they consider they are Americans in their hearts. There's a difference today, a big difference.

[Kathy63]

Originally Posted by rs232c

This phrase has confused me for years. I had always believed that we were a nation of citizens not of immigrants.

As for myself I am a sixth generation American and my siblings children the seventh. At what point do we become citizens and no longer immigrants?

I can't see it to mean 'America is a nation built by immigrants' because I recall the study that said 83% of our country was built by citizens and 14% non-citizens.

I have a problem understanding that 'America is a nation that was born of immigrants, therefore we have always come from immigrants, and will always be of immigrants', because the same would be true for the Indian population, which I understand still have soverign nations and are all citizens at birth now anyway.

And last it certainly doesn't make any sense to me to be a citizen in a nation of immigrants, that just doesn't seem to mean anything at all. In my understanding it is valid to be a citizen and 'used to be an immigrant' in a nation of citizens, but not both concurrently.

In my pea-sized brain the only thing that does make sense to me is that it is a policitally correct phrase that defines the status of immigrant and the status of citizenship to be one in the same and indistingusihable.

Are they?

You pose an interesting question. The beginnings of every nation do not obligate that nation to forever remain as it was in its inception. Austrialia was a penal colony. It began as a nation of criminals. Should Australia now be obligated to remain a penal colony for the world's worst criminals? Of course not. To even think such a thing is absurd.

The United States was NEVER a nation of immigrants. It was always a nation of AMERICANS. Americans who came here from all nations and all walks of life but who shared one thing in common, to be an AMERICAN. When those Americans came here it was with one mind. To shed old loyalties and embrace fully the American condition. It was easy for them to put aside their own nationality. They came intending to do just that.

[Twoller]

Originally Posted by Kathy63

You pose an interesting question. The beginnings of every nation do not obligate that nation to forever remain as it was in its inception. Austrialia was a penal colony. It began as a nation of criminals. Should Australia now be obligated to remain a penal colony for the world's worst criminals? Of course not. To even think such a thing is absurd.

The United States was NEVER a nation of immigrants. It was always a nation of AMERICANS. Americans who came here from all nations and all walks of life but who shared one thing in common, to be an AMERICAN. When those Americans came here it was with one mind. To shed old loyalties and embrace fully the American condition. It was easy for them to put aside their own nationality. They came intending to do just that.

The United States started out, like all of the countries in the Americas, as a colony of some European power. For us, our political ancestors are English, the English were the colonial powers represented in the territories that later became the United States of America. It was the native Americans of North America whose land was colonized by the English and other European powers. But since the native Americans were not a single people and, in fact, suffered migration among themselves, they were in a poor position to describe European colonists as immigrants of any kind. Although, it would be hard to see why the natives would dignify colonization by calling it immigration, even though we do the same thing today with our own immigrant invasion.

Our political ancestors fought a revolution against the colonial English in a dispute over representation and human rights. They lay down their greivances in the Declaration of Independence. They proposed a new vision of society based on citizenship and representative government. In particular, citizenship meant that everyone who lived as a citizen under a government of laws, not people, were equal under the eyes of the law.

Anyone who aspired to relocate into the United States aspired to citizenship. Without assuming the role of citizen, they could not participate in those basic roles that formed the working backbone of life in the United States.

And so it is today. Anyone who aspires to live in the United States outside of the institution of citizenship conspires against the United States and its hard won struggles against the old and degenerate order in Europe which continues to exist and has powerful representation in the United States and the Americas.