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  #11  
Old 12-12-2009, 03:02 PM
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Jeanfromfillmore Jeanfromfillmore is offline
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Originally Posted by Twoller View Post
I think there is a problem with lumping blacks and hispanics together as a social issue. The problems that African Americans have to deal with have absolutely nothing to do with the complaints made by hispanics. The "hispanics" have nothing to complain about, really. The African Americans, the real African Americans, not African immigrants, have had a lot to overcome and still suffer the reverberations of their ordeal as slaves.

It's true there are a lot of rotten leaders claiming to represent the African American community, but leadership there is tough to find.

But I have to admit, time is running out on African Americans, their communites are becoming increasing blurred and diffused.
Well I would agree with you that much of what the Blacks are experiencing is quite different from someone who just crawled across our border. But some things are a problem that society as a whole has created. I say this because of three generations of welfare recipients and the damage to so many as a result. It has created a feeling of entitlement, lack of responsibility and a continued underclass which has now become an acceptable lifestyle and enabler for illegals. The Blacks and Hispanic are two different demographics, but they do share some common problems, along with other ethnics to a lesser degree.
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2009, 04:08 PM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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Well I would agree with you that much of what the Blacks are experiencing is quite different from someone who just crawled across our border. But some things are a problem that society as a whole has created. I say this because of three generations of welfare recipients and the damage to so many as a result. It has created a feeling of entitlement, lack of responsibility and a continued underclass which has now become an acceptable lifestyle and enabler for illegals. The Blacks and Hispanic are two different demographics, but they do share some common problems, along with other ethnics to a lesser degree.
But the reality is that not all hispanics in the US got here by crawling accross the border. And what got hispanics classed as an underclass was the misplaced designation of hispanics as a racial classification. Hispanics no more deserve a racial distinction in the US than the Italians or the Scandinavians. Notice that middle easterners are not considered a race legalistically in this country. And I would say that African Americans have some rights to claim some entitlements. But nobody else, at least nobody else distinguished as a race and certainly not African immigrants or black immigrants from outside the US or any of their descendents.
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2009, 04:49 PM
LAPhil LAPhil is offline
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Originally Posted by Twoller View Post
But the reality is that not all hispanics in the US got here by crawling accross the border. And what got hispanics classed as an underclass was the misplaced designation of hispanics as a racial classification. Hispanics no more deserve a racial distinction in the US than the Italians or the Scandinavians. Notice that middle easterners are not considered a race legalistically in this country. And I would say that African Americans have some rights to claim some entitlements. But nobody else, at least nobody else distinguished as a race and certainly not African immigrants or black immigrants from outside the US or any of their descendents.
Twoller, we're pretty much in agreement again. I'm just not sure about the entitlements you think "African Americans' are entitled to. I think the whole Affirmative Action thing has outlived its original purpose, and even though the playing field may not yet be level, many of those who claim they're entitled to things for that reason will never be willing to acknowlege that the playing field is level when that comes about. At some point every traditionally disadvantaged minority group has to accept that life isn't completely fair and play the cards they're dealt. I know that's easy for me to say as a white male, but other minorities have achived great success by keeping a positive attitude and realized their full potential through hard work and a refusal to accept a victim status.
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  #14  
Old 12-18-2009, 05:07 AM
Kathy63 Kathy63 is offline
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Kathy, you can't mean that. Are you saying most blacks and Hispanics are basically criminals?
No. What I'm saying is that if these criminals are NOT representative of their communities, they better start DOING something about it. Like identifying those among them who are and dealing with it. Since there is this HUGE silence, except when it comes to excuse making and reason finding, this kind of behavior has found acceptance in these communities on some level.

Certainly it has not escaped you that this cop killer is being hailed as a hero. Why is that? Because to them he is a hero. IF there are some among them that think he is not a hero, where are they?
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  #15  
Old 12-18-2009, 05:32 AM
LAPhil LAPhil is offline
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No. What I'm saying is that if these criminals are NOT representative of their communities, they better start DOING something about it. Like identifying those among them who are and dealing with it. Since there is this HUGE silence, except when it comes to excuse making and reason finding, this kind of behavior has found acceptance in these communities on some level.

Certainly it has not escaped you that this cop killer is being hailed as a hero. Why is that? Because to them he is a hero. IF there are some among them that think he is not a hero, where are they?
I don't think it's incumbent upon members of a minority group to seek out and identify others in that group who are continually breaking the law. That would be like racially profiling themselves. Should white people identify criminals in their communities and make a point of telling other ethnic and racial groups that "We're not like them!" Minorities are no more responsible for criminals who share their ethnic or racial identity than anyone else.
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"I entirely reject the concept, however, of "anchor babies." If parents are found to be here illegally, then the whole family, children as well, should be sent back to the parents' country of origin."
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  #16  
Old 12-18-2009, 08:39 AM
Rim05 Rim05 is offline
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Minorities are no more responsible for criminals who share their ethnic or racial identity than anyone else.
Phil, I will give you a 100% Plus on that statement. Don't you know all the KKK and Skinhead types would be over joyed to see strife among the Blacks in their community? In 2009 this kind of stuff should be dead.
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  #17  
Old 12-18-2009, 10:45 AM
Kathy63 Kathy63 is offline
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Originally Posted by LAPhil View Post
I don't think it's incumbent upon members of a minority group to seek out and identify others in that group who are continually breaking the law. That would be like racially profiling themselves. Should white people identify criminals in their communities and make a point of telling other ethnic and racial groups that "We're not like them!" Minorities are no more responsible for criminals who share their ethnic or racial identity than anyone else.
Examine your statement a bit.

When was the last time you saw a group of white folk come out in support of the KKK or skinheads like you see minority communities come out in support of the WORST criminals among them?

Minorities aren't responsible for criminals who share their ethnic or racial identity but they are ABSOLUTELY responsible for their OWN behavior in supporting these criminals.

Why did the Christian/Newsom killers get such support? Why did the black community in Long Beach threaten the city until the gang that beat up those white girls was released? Why did Tookie Williams get a televised state funeral?

Can you see whites supporting Timothy McVeigh? Ted Bundy? Any criminal based on skin color alone????

No. Because that would make us sympathetic to the worst among us. By legitimizing and accepting such behavior we'd be no better than them.

You can count on the fingers of one had the black leaders who speak up. And you can count them ALL slapped down again by their own people.
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  #18  
Old 12-18-2009, 12:19 PM
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Jeanfromfillmore Jeanfromfillmore is offline
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Originally Posted by Kathy63 View Post
Examine your statement a bit.

When was the last time you saw a group of white folk come out in support of the KKK or skinheads like you see minority communities come out in support of the WORST criminals among them?

Minorities aren't responsible for criminals who share their ethnic or racial identity but they are ABSOLUTELY responsible for their OWN behavior in supporting these criminals.

Why did the Christian/Newsom killers get such support? Why did the black community in Long Beach threaten the city until the gang that beat up those white girls was released? Why did Tookie Williams get a televised state funeral?

Can you see whites supporting Timothy McVeigh? Ted Bundy? Any criminal based on skin color alone????

No. Because that would make us sympathetic to the worst among us. By legitimizing and accepting such behavior we'd be no better than them.

You can count on the fingers of one had the black leaders who speak up. And you can count them ALL slapped down again by their own people.
Kathy you make a very good point. As I wrote before, you can not change bad behavior until you recognize it and be honest about it.
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  #19  
Old 12-18-2009, 02:01 PM
LAPhil LAPhil is offline
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Originally Posted by Kathy63 View Post
Examine your statement a bit.

When was the last time you saw a group of white folk come out in support of the KKK or skinheads like you see minority communities come out in support of the WORST criminals among them?

Minorities aren't responsible for criminals who share their ethnic or racial identity but they are ABSOLUTELY responsible for their OWN behavior in supporting these criminals.

Why did the Christian/Newsom killers get such support? Why did the black community in Long Beach threaten the city until the gang that beat up those white girls was released? Why did Tookie Williams get a televised state funeral?

Can you see whites supporting Timothy McVeigh? Ted Bundy? Any criminal based on skin color alone????

No. Because that would make us sympathetic to the worst among us. By legitimizing and accepting such behavior we'd be no better than them.

You can count on the fingers of one had the black leaders who speak up. And you can count them ALL slapped down again by their own people.
Kathy:
I'll concede the part of your point about how minorities who do not commit criminal behavior but support others who do simply because they belong to that minority are partially responsible for the crime in their communities. However, you also need to consider the fact that there are many blacks and Hispanics who do not condone the behavior under any circumstances. I don't think they need the additional burden of rooting out crime in their own communities, which is the job of law enforcement, when they are already being stereotyped as being prone to crime. It doesn't seem fair to further penalize the honest, law-abiding citizens in the minority communities just because there also happen to be a lot of bad apples in the group.
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"I entirely reject the concept, however, of "anchor babies." If parents are found to be here illegally, then the whole family, children as well, should be sent back to the parents' country of origin."
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  #20  
Old 12-18-2009, 02:21 PM
Kathy63 Kathy63 is offline
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Then it is incumbent upon those who object to speak up. Otherwise they run the risk of joining the mythical moderate muslims. At least muslim organizations give some lip service to condemning their errant brothers (I doubt they mean it).

Unfortunately, to very many blacks, the ones who speak up are treated worst of all. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Walter Williams, Bill Cosby, fine vocal men (although Cosby is quite a racist himself) that certainly are not treated well in their own communities.
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