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  #1  
Old 10-29-2010, 06:08 PM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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Default Illegal and Legal Immigrants Get Jobs, but Native-Borns Get More Unemployment

As someone who was out of work between January 2009 and July 2010 (and is currently "under employed") I can say that unless you speak Spanish in the Los Angeles job market you won't get work! This article from the Christian Science Monitor tells the sad, sad story of the impact of legal and illegal immigration on native-born Americans.

The article states the following from the Pew Hispanic Center study:

Quote:
In the year following the official end of the Great Recession in June 2009, foreign-born workers gained 656,000 jobs while native-born workers lost 1.2 million, according to a new analysis of U.S. Census Bureau and Department of Labor data by the Pew Hispanic Center.
Quote:
As a result, the unemployment rate for immigrant workers fell 0.6 percentage points during this period (from 9.3% to 8.7%) while for native-born workers it rose 0.5 percentage points (from 9.2% to 9.7%).
Quote:
Also, even as immigrants managed to gain jobs in the recovery, they experienced a sharp decline in earnings. From 2009 to 2010, the median weekly earnings of foreign-born workers decreased 4.5%, compared with a loss of less than one percent for native-born workers.
There is, however some good news from the study,

Quote:
Latino immigrants experienced the largest drop in wages of all.
All of this was released on the day that NutMeg Whitman made a campaign stop at Porto's Bakery in Glendale.

My wife recently applied to this location for a barista position. The manager called her and commented that she was well qualified for the position. The manager then asked if my wife spoke Spanish, and my wife said that she did not. She also stated to the manager that she did not find it necessary to speak a foreign language in the United States. The manager abruptly ended the conversation.

What is in store for the modern American worker when he can't get a job in his home country unless he speaks a foreign language?! The illegal and legal immigrants have made it harder for native-born workers to A. get jobs, and B. get paid a decent wage. For many years I have said that immigration was/is good for America. However, over the past 18 or so months that opinion has shifted dramatically to ending, at least temporarily, all immigration into this country.
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2010, 08:26 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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We saw this comin', and that's why we altered the SOS agenda and statement when it was chartered.
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2010, 05:04 AM
Rim05 Rim05 is offline
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Everyone looks for someone to Blame. They should be looking in the mirror. I am still doing all my yard work and what ever is done in the house. Some day I will not be able to keep it up, I don't know what I will do that day.
I had a small roof repair a couple of weeks ago. The company is owned by White Americans, however who shows up to work? A bunch of Spanish jabbering Hispanics. I ask "Can't you guys speak English"? The one who seemed to be the foreman said Yes. I told him then speak English.

I have said for about 5 years that all immigration should be stopped. If we have millions of Americans out of work, I see no reason to grant tourists visas, work visas or any king of refugge status to anyone. Tourists come and then just never go home.

All our arguments about illegal immigration are failing because we are electing those who are advocating for it.
Going to the polls Tue and voting is the most important thing any of us and do. Our choice of a good candidate is very poor but there is not much choice.
All I can say is vote person and not party.
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2010, 10:31 AM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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Originally Posted by Rim05 View Post
Everyone looks for someone to Blame. They should be looking in the mirror. I am still doing all my yard work and what ever is done in the house. Some day I will not be able to keep it up, I don't know what I will do that day.
I had a small roof repair a couple of weeks ago. The company is owned by White Americans, however who shows up to work? A bunch of Spanish jabbering Hispanics. I ask "Can't you guys speak English"? The one who seemed to be the foreman said Yes. I told him then speak English.

I have said for about 5 years that all immigration should be stopped. If we have millions of Americans out of work, I see no reason to grant tourists visas, work visas or any king of refugge status to anyone. Tourists come and then just never go home.

All our arguments about illegal immigration are failing because we are electing those who are advocating for it.
Going to the polls Tue and voting is the most important thing any of us and do. Our choice of a good candidate is very poor but there is not much choice.
All I can say is vote person and not party.
Not only is the work lost to these rats, but the work they do is substandard. Part of the blame that goes to citizens is accepting substandard work. These people doing yardwork and housing repair and construction are unfit to do any of this stuff. Watching them, it's easy to wonder if they are fit to do anything at all. They slap things together artlessly and run over lawns carelessly. If it weren't for nail guns, leaf blowers and weed eaters, most of them wouldn't make any effort or fire any more neurons thinking about it either.

Would anyone purchase anything manufactured in the countries these people come out of? Of course if we are talking about China, we don't have much choice.
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2010, 11:18 AM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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You would not have heard this out of the media last year, it's a lot of what I've been saying over the years:

Quote:
For jobless Latinos, illegal immigration can be a sore point

By Matt O'Brien

Bay Area News Group

10/30/2010

SAN LEANDRO -- Javier Gonzalez believes he would have a job today were it not for illegal immigration.

"I think that illegal immigrants do take jobs away from native workers, especially out here in the Bay Area," said the 43-year-old son of Mexican immigrants. "I'm unemployed, but I shouldn't have to be. I'm from the area. I was born here, and I can't get a job here."

For the jobless, especially those who work in the trades, the thought of competing against an illegal work force of undocumented immigrants can be a sore point. Labor market economists have long differed about whether such fears are grounded in reality.

But a study released Friday by the Pew Hispanic Center adds fuel to the fire, finding that as the economy slowly recovers, foreign-born workers are taking up jobs faster than their native-born counterparts. Immigrants, both legal and illegal, have gained 656,000 jobs since June 2009, the month that federal economists consider to be the end of the Great Recession. Native-born workers lost 1.2 million jobs in the same period of economic recovery, according to the report.

"There are some reasonable explanations," said Rakesh Kochhar, associate research director of the nonpartisan think tank. "I think the main one would be that the recession started earlier for foreign-born workers. They were hit hard earlier in the recession. Now, it seems they are bouncing back quicker."

The study does not distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants because such data is not available, but unauthorized workers are undoubtedly a big part of the picture, Kochhar said.

Immigrants who come to the United States with limited job skills and educational backgrounds are typically the most vulnerable when there are volatile changes in the job market, he said. They also, however, tend to be more flexible in a bad economic environment, willing to move from one region or occupation to another.

"They are more sensitive to the business cycle," Kochhar said. "They get hit harder, but they bounce back sooner."

Because they are denied unemployment insurance [-> Untrue in California <-], undocumented workers are also more desperate to take whatever job they can find, even if the work is sporadic and earns them a low wage. The study found that though immigrants found more jobs in the past year, they were not doing much better financially -- the median weekly earnings of immigrants has dropped 4.5 percent since summer 2009 while remaining relatively steady for U.S.-born workers.

Several variables affected the results, including the loss of thousands of temporary census jobs in the spring and summer. This disproportionately affected U.S.-born workers because illegal immigrants are disqualified from jobs in the federal government.

The stagnant construction industry accounted for more than half the 1.2 million jobs lost by native-born workers. It was also the sector that saw the starkest difference between foreign-born and U.S.-born workers, especially among those who identify themselves as Latino.

Latino immigrants gained 98,000 construction jobs from 2009 to 2010, but Latinos who were born in the United States lost 133,000 construction jobs in the same period, along with 92,000 jobs in transportation, warehousing, wholesale and retail trade.


The study may help confirm and challenge beliefs of those who hold strong views on immigration, but Kochhar cautioned against drawing easy conclusions.

"There are so many things, really, that we don't know," he said.

Born in San Francisco, the unemployed Gonzalez attended community college to obtain a communication degree, paying out of his own pocket, but couldn't find a job in that field. His father was a migrant farmworker who moved to California from Mexico in the 1950s, though Gonzalez is not sure how he was able to get in.

"He's never really given me the exact story, the details of what path he took," Gonzalez said.


The majority of his American family members went into municipal trash collection. Gonzalez has also spent years working in labor-intensive jobs, but today finds most of those positions unavailable. He considers illegal immigration a chief culprit, though he says finding a constructive solution is difficult.

Gonzalez is not alone in his thinking. Another study released by the Pew Hispanic Center on Thursday found that Latinos, though traditionally sympathetic to the challenges faced by illegal immigrants, have increasingly mixed feelings about the issue.

The national survey of about 1,400 Latino adults found that just 29 percent felt that illegal or undocumented immigration had a positive impact on Latinos already living in the United States. In contrast, half of those who took a similar survey three years ago said the impact of illegal immigrants was positive.

Still, as a Mexican-American who does not support giving illegal immigrants a chance to become citizens, Gonzalez remains in the minority: 86 percent of Latinos, including 82 percent of U.S.-born Latinos, support providing a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants if they pay a fine, pass background checks and have jobs, according to the same Pew report.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/top-stories/ci_16463577

Read the Pew Hispanic Center report at www.pewhispanic.org.
By and large, American employers discriminate against Americans, regardless of ancestry. The justifications by business are many.

What is a comfortable conviction when times are easier might involve a change of mind when the personal pocketbook is concerned as far as a view concerning illegal immigration.

I know a number of Latinos who do not like illegal immigration, and not all of them are old fart "vendidos" and they do include first generation born in America with Mexican parentage.

And not all support "the path to citizenship", I believe that figure is lower. I believe the 82% figure of the American born is derived by both the way poll questions on the subject were asked and respondents who have close relatives who are illegal.

There have been illegals who collect unemployment under one name while working under another, and a period of genuine unemployment doesn't change the fact that California doesn't check the legal status of welfare check recipients. A person receiving welfare checks from the State of California certifies by signature and I believe under penalty of perjury that the recipient is of legal status.
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Last edited by ilbegone; 10-30-2010 at 12:57 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2010, 06:55 PM
Rim05 Rim05 is offline
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Quote:
Would anyone purchase anything manufactured in the countries these people come out of? Of course if we are talking about China, we don't have much choice.
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We, the USA do not even make tooth picks, drinking straws, any kind of matches any more. Mexico gets its share of making house hold goods. The Hoover vacs are made in Mexico, so is American Standard bath fixtures. A lot of clothing comes from Mexico.

This has been going on for so long that most people do not remember when it started, probably at least 35 years ago.
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2010, 08:03 PM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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Originally Posted by Rim05 View Post
We, the USA do not even make tooth picks, drinking straws, any kind of matches any more. Mexico gets its share of making house hold goods. The Hoover vacs are made in Mexico, so is American Standard bath fixtures. A lot of clothing comes from Mexico.

This has been going on for so long that most people do not remember when it started, probably at least 35 years ago.
A lot of that stuff doesn't matter. Mexico, for example, is capable of producing things for itself. But higher ticket items are another thing. If they were required to put labels on thing explaining where a lot of this stuff were made, they wouldn't be able to sell any of it.
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  #8  
Old 10-31-2010, 05:11 AM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Latinos souring on illegal immigration

Ryan Hagen, Staff Writer

10/30/2010

A new study shows Latinos have soured considerably on illegal immigration in the last three years.

In 2007, 50 percent of Latinos surveyed told the Pew Hispanic Center that the growing number of illegal immigrants was a positive force for the existing Latino population. In a Pew survey released Thursday, that number had plummeted to 29 percent.

Thirty-one percent said illegal immigration had a negative effect, and 20percent said it had no effect.

While the wording of the question changed slightly in 2010 - striking the phrase "growing number" to reflect studies that show illegal immigration declining - several local advocates on different sides of the issue called the change in perception unsurprising.

Those Inland Empire voices diverged significantly, however, when it came to explaining the shift and what it means for immigration policy.

Raymond Herrera, president and founder of a Claremont-based group called We the People, California's Crusader, said political will has been shifting since 2004.

Herrera said that's when activists like him began loudly calling for reform, slowly building what he said is a national consensus that illegal immigrants should be deported.

"The Minutemen stood up six years ago and brought the awareness level to the American people," he said. "It is now at an apex where ... enough people have had their American dream stolen (by illegal immigrants)."

The head of a center that provides legal and other assistance to immigrants disagreed.

Emilio Amaya, executive director of the San Bernardino Community Resource Center, said the growing negative attitudes are an understandable but flawed response to a faltering economy.

"In these difficult financial times, even immigrants see themselves competing against new immigrants," Amaya said. "(But) they don't really compete because most people, older immigrants, they already have different (job) skills."

Amaya said illegal immigrants should be fined and "sent to the back of the line," matching the opinion of 53 percent of Latinos. The Pew survey found 13 percent of Latinos advocate deportation, while 28 percent said illegal immigrants should not be punished.

Political and economic factors often shift Latino opinions of immigration, noted Cherstin Lyon, who studies at Cal State San Bernardino.

"Mexican-American populations have been divided throughout the 20thcentury, and (opinions) largely changed since the 1970s," she said. "Most famously, Cesar Chavez came under intense attack from others within the Chicano movement because he ... encouraged punishments of those hiring illegal immigrants."

Lyon had not yet read the study but said crackdowns - such as Arizona's S.B. 1070, which allows police to check immigration status if they suspect a person they've already stopped is in the country illegally - tend to encourage discrimination against Hispanic-looking people.

However, 34 percent of Latinos said they, a family member or a close friend experienced discrimination because of their race or ethnic group in the last five years - up 2 percent from 2009, before Arizona's law was proposed.

Pew surveyed 1,375 Latino adults in English and Spanish from Aug. 17 until Sept. 19.

http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_16478933
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SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

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  #9  
Old 10-31-2010, 05:24 AM
Rim05 Rim05 is offline
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I have to say that a lot of Americans do not seem to remember the beginning of this madness. It actually started in the 70s but it was so gradual most did not notice or maybe did not care.
Most of the Hispanic community are ok with it because, now grandpa and grandma, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles...........you get the picture, The whole community is here.

Do you think they, the new comers care, I don't think so?
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Old 10-31-2010, 06:42 AM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rim05 View Post
I have to say that a lot of Americans do not seem to remember the beginning of this madness. It actually started in the 70s but it was so gradual most did not notice or maybe did not care.
Most of the Hispanic community are ok with it because, now grandpa and grandma, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles...........you get the picture, The whole community is here.

Do you think they, the new comers care, I don't think so?
Not everyone is ok with it, it has to do with different experiences.

The ones first generation born in America of Mexican parents who remember the forties and fifties are getting old and with increasing frequency are mentioned in the obituary. They are the ones who had it hard with their in between-ness, and they and their descendants are not the same people who come here now, and they never were. There is a huge difference with time and former distance.

I first saw illegals come to my semi isolated town in the middle seventies, when I first worked with them. I don't believe that even they were the same people who come here now, it seems there was a different attitude.

In my experience, the flood gate opened just after the n1981 recession, when devaluation of the peso wiped out whatever incremental gains to a Mexican middle class since the revolution, and whatever money the poor managed to bury in jars became worthless.

The failing of the American people in regards to illegal immigration lay not in those Mexicans, but in the business interest in bargain basement labor and politicians who refused to enforce the 1986 immigration law they themselves legislated.

I believe that the collusion between business, government, and the co-opted educational system combined with what I believe to generally be a lower class of people immigrating than before - and in such volume since the 1986 amnesty - has resulted in such a wellspring of expectant entitlement and extended family ties which just weren't here before. The separateness for many born in America and those of extended generations is now pushed by both real ties and artificial means as well as persistent and contrived racial consciousness, but they aren't fully Mexican in the sense of culture or language, and they never will be.

However illegal immigration is going to be resolved, no one on either side will be satisfied with the outcome, and there will be lingering pain and resentment.

You can take that one to the bank.
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Hay burros en el maiz

RAP IS TO MUSIC WHAT ETCH-A-SKETCH IS TO ART

Don't drink and post.

"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." - Old New York Yiddish Saying

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra

Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Never, ever, wear a bright colored shirt to a stand up comedy show.


Last edited by ilbegone; 10-31-2010 at 06:58 AM.
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