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| SOS Management and Operation Discussion Questions and answers about the management and operation of Save Our State. |
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#1
11-19-2009, 05:56 PM
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This are two emails I sent to William Gheen with his two response:
Hello William, This is Jeanfromfillmore. You may not remember me but we spent some time together the last time you were here in California. I was one of those that partyed with you and the group at your suite in Santa Monica till three in the morning. By the way it was a lot of fun and I enjoyed everyone's sense of humor so much. I had a great time. You were quite hammered, but unlike me didn't have to drive home another 60 miles. The reason I'm sending you this email is that I am part of the new Save Our State.info. I hold no grudges against you, and actually have supported your organization as recently as April 15. At the end of the meeting in Orange County I asked for and you gave me the ALIPAC posters that you had printed up for thatt visit. So during the first TEA PARTIES on Apr 15 I took those posters to three rallies, Thousand Oaks, Simi Valley and Van Nuys where your organization did get media coverage due to my representing you. I support all organizations that are working toward ending this invasion and respect all those whose real goal is toward that end. What I saw in the years I was a member under both Joe Turner and Chelene Nightengale was an orgainzation that was there at the right time and fit a need that we in the Los Angeles area were in desparate need of. This is the reason SOS grew in those first few years. But, sadly in the last few, egos and certain personal charateristics began to emerge. We had some of our BEST activists banned and then labled as 'goons'. This was not the work of a good leader, but the battle of egos and struggle for power. I never had a problem with Chelene personally, and don't consider her or anyone against the La Raza/Open Borders crowd an enemy. I have worked with many people inside and outside the anti-illegal organizations and lobbied with Chelene in the Rayburn Building while we were both in DC together. I spoke to you while we were there a few years back, but I don't draw much attention to myself and you probably wouldn't remember me. I mention that because this isn't about me, and it isn't about you, Chelene, Barbara Coe, Jeff, or Gilchrist. It's about making progress and putting up a decent resistance. We don't have the numbers that the open borders orgs have and that includes your org. That is the truth whether we want to admit it or not. So many of our citizens are so complacent that they expect others to carry the message and will only go so far when it comes to real activism. That is a fact and what we are battleing an enemy with a hughly funded propaganda campaign to silence us. As far as the old Save Our State, the last final blow was Chelene bringing the Barbara Coe vs. Gilchrist fight to the organization. It consumed the organization and burned out what was left of our members especially after the purge by Chelene and others in management. I had taken over as director after Chelenes departure for a few months but the division that was created by Chelene and her few followers were not concerned with the organizations survival and it fell apart. Chelene had lost many member support and for at least a year and a half they were not showing up or following her as a leader. This may have been, and I beleive it was because of the Gilchrist issue. We lost Watchdog (Brook), and so many others, we were weakend beyond repair. And then it was found out that we members had been deceived when we were told we were a legitimate non-profit, which we weren't because Joe never completed the paperwork for the state. The fingers in management started pointing at each other and the whole thing became very ugly. There are still some of us who are in this movement, not for political or monitary gain, but to protect what we see as being taken from us and given away to others for their own gain. You may regard this message as something humorous, or nonimportant, but I felt compelled to write and let you know how thing went down in the last few years at SOS from the perspective of someone who was just as active as Chelene and those you know about because of their high profile. We didn't make our names known, we're those minions that the leaders feel we will follow them blindly and not notice what is going on. Well we did notice. You're taking sides in this issue does not serve anyone well except those open borders advocates that we should really be focusing on resisting. We all have something to bring to the table and deserve the respect shown to those in the limelight like yourself. Some of us attended the Anti-Illegal Immigration rallies across California. I personally, along with 5 other SOS members attended the rally in Pasadena. I did not display the posters you gave me because it is hard to promote someone who doesn't support me in my endevers. I won't ever discredit you or your organization, but I could ask that you do the same. I am now in a management position in the new SOS also, and so your anger toward Davi or any others is also landing on me. No one or organization, including you and your orgization, can take any more division and retain the force needed to battle this upcoming amnesty push in just a few weeks. I do place a great deal of the problems on the doorstep of Gilchrist, but you and Chelene let him in and therefor hold some of the blame. Although you may not see us as a voice with any power, don't underestimate us. We're making strides and headway. We're working to bring all the So Calif activists under one umbrella of force and hold no grudges against anyone. I will tell you, I'm keeping Gilchirst at arms length and won't let him blindsight me. But I will say, you are not the enemy, so please don't conduct yourself as though we are. Thank you Jean Jean, Davi is in cahoots with Jim Gilchrist. We want nothing to do with anyone that has anything to do with Jim Gilchrist. Me and Chelene did not "let Jim Gilchrist in" and we have both worked together to try to stop Gilchrist from causing even more harm to our movement than he has. You are lucky we have done that because his recent escapades with Shawna Forde almost brought down the entire movement. As far as I am concerned right now, Save Our State is no longer a functioning group. If you folks decide to start a new group and can show some accomplishments, then go for it. Personally, I think you folks should come up with a new name unless Joe Turner personally endorses your efforts. Love him or hate him, Joe Turner as Save Our State and the biggest problem for Chelene was that she took on the effort of carrying the water for Joe who acted like an absentee landlord around the organization in the final years. I will always remember, revere, and cherish the positive and effective campaigns that I worked closely with Joe Turner, Chelene Nightingale, and other great members of Save Our State from the old schoolers back in 2004-2006, to the new bloods I worked with in AZ and CA in recent years. Davie has been banned from ALIPAC for being a jerk towards me, ALIPAC, and violating our rules. I consider Joe Turner and Chelene Nightingale to be my friends and I will adamantly oppose anyone that attacks or bashes them or that works with Jim Gilchrist. I will not be working with Barb Coe anymore because she back stabbed me when I criticized her buddy and Jim Gilchrist / Shawna Forde ally Glenn Spencer. If you want to form a new group that we would consider working with, it will need to be without Davi. If you plan to keep him in the mix, then you folks have the best of luck with your endeavors. I have not said or done anything negative about you and I will keep that posture unless I get anymore trouble out Davi. William - Show quoted text - Hello William, You're wrong about Davi being in cahoots with Gilchrist. You couldn't be anything farther from the truth. You were sold a pig in a poke. Chelene threw that into the mix because she wanted you as angry with him as she was. And I might add that her anger was for little cause. You took her on her word and there was a whole lot more to it than what she told you. There are ALLOT of people angry with Chelene, even angrier than the anger between Chelene and Davi. I've tried to resolve some of it but some people just hate her and refuse to forgive her. You see you didn't spend as much time around her and weren't up front and center to the scenes and explosions Chelene is capable of along with the exploitation. It wasn't until recently that I found out how much she had lied to me, and I spent hours and hours with her over these past four years. Some of the lies were for no good apparent reason, just to project this image she wanted others to believe of her. Yes, I was around most of those years, almost from the beginning, and just shortly after Chelene came on the scene. Remember you're on the other side of the country and there's something to be said about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. Don't burn bridges especially when you don't know who really built them. As I wrote I have no animosity toward Chelene of Joe, and you for that regard. I am not writing you for your permission or blessing. I am writing to you out of respect. I will always give someone the respect they deserve as long as they show a modicum of respect for their position. And as a person representing this movement I would hope you can keep a respectable discourse when discussing other activists and organizations. As far as the Shana Ford thing, she was not ever part of SOS, and we are not part of the Minuteman organizations. So I won't give you credit for 'saving' us. And if you had been around our old SOS organization the last year and a half you would have known that Chelene had basically gutted it and there wasn't much left. I had started to realize over a year ago that Chelene was driving members way, but didn't vocalize it until about January of this year. It started just about the time she started the 'coalition'. She pursued that because it hid the fact that she had lost most of SOS's membership, either by banning some of our most active members who took a leadership role, or the members just got into an argument with her and left. We members invested a great deal of our time and money to build a viable resistance here in Califonia and many felt very betrayed by the actions and direction the management, which was under Chelenes direction, and that also included Davi. But to her credit, she did devote a great deal of time to the organization and I agree with you that Joe did abandon it leaving in the hand of someone who may have originally had good intentions, but whose directions changed toward her own pursuits. I don't hold anything against her for pursuing her own goals, but I also can't condone some of the really bad things she did to some people in this movement. It was down right deceitful and maybe they can get their money back in court. Believe me, Chelene wouldn't win and she would have no defence in justifying what she did, it's that black and white. But that's between the two of them. It just doesn't leave her with as high of regard as I once had for her. I admire someone who is loyal to a friend, and understand your standing by her, but there are always two sides to a story and to keep her in such high standing in your eyes it's better that you not know all the specifics. This will be the last correspondence from me. As I wrote, I wasn't writing to get your approval, just to let you know that not all of those you consider 'the other side' are against you. I, along with most others hope that you succeed and that we do also. But what I do want you to realize is that this movement is not just you, me, Davi, Chelene, Gilchrist, Barbara, Jeff, Joe or Glenn. It is all those others who are willing to donate and get their butts in the street or in harms way as we did more than once in Maywood, Hollywood and Los Angeles. We've been attacked and had our property destroyed, yet we didn't turn our backs. Not until Chelene and those who were doing her bidding made the members feel deceived at that point the members stop coming or working together. Trust is a very fragile thing, and doesn't mend easily. This is the truth, whether you want to believe it or not doesn't matter. You will still have what you consider your friend, Joe and Chelene, and that's ok because we can always use a few more friends. I don't hold it against you that you side with them, because it's not about being in a clique and being the most popular. Maybe I feel that way because I'm not running for office. Keeps me a bit more honest. Good luck to you William, we are on the same side. Jean Kelly, I know Davi was in cahoots with Jim Gilchrist from my own conversations and emails directly with Davi. Nobody else informed me, Davi admitted his support for Jim Gilchrist when Davi worked hard to defend Jim Gilchrist's continued support of Shawna Forde prior to the murders but after enough evidence emerged for any sane person to understand she was dangerous. This morning, I have just read the e-mail that Davi has sent out to prior members of Save Our State. In this e-mail he attacks Chelene Nightingale. It is clear to all that Davi has a personal vendetta against Chelene. Otherwise, there was absolutely no reason he should have attacked her specifically and by name in that e-mail. Consider this your official notice. All participants in this attempt to resurect SOS under the leadership of Davi Rodriguez had better stay the hell away from me and ALIPAC or we will take action. Do not attempt to post your information or releases on our boards. Do not post or distribute our releases or alerts. Anymore attacks from this new SOS, Davi, or anyone in his camp against me, Chelene, or any of our allies in the National Illegal Immigration Boycott Coalition will lead to a full organizational response from ALIPAC. William Gheen President, Americans for Legal Immigration PAC www.alipac.us Cc: Chelene Nightingale and Jeff Schwilk 
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#2
11-19-2009, 06:43 PM
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"Consider this your official notice. All participants in this attempt to resurect SOS under the leadership of Davi Rodriguez had better stay the
hell away from me and ALIPAC or we will take action. Do not attempt to post your information or releases on our boards. Do not post or distribute our releases or alerts. Anymore attacks from this new SOS, Davi, or anyone in his camp against me, Chelene, or any of our allies in the National Illegal Immigration Boycott Coalition will lead to a full organizational response from ALIPAC." Obviously the gentleman from the South has taken a strong position against SOS and intends to keep it. So be it!
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#3
11-19-2009, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
I swear! after reading the growlings of Gheen, Schwilk, and Nightingale, I often wonder if the three of them aren't brushing their teeth with gunpowder
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#4
11-19-2009, 07:23 PM
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#5
11-19-2009, 10:25 PM
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Jean, I really have to wonder about you. What on Earth were you thinking? Why would you go to the trouble of trying to convince or persuade William Gheen about our pious motives or Davi's purity ... or much of anything for that matter? What is the purpose of entangling us in the brain dead slander-fest featuring Jim Gilchrist, Shawna Forde, Chelene Nightingale, Jeff Schwilk and (less frequently, but no less passionately) Tony Genovese, Glen Spencer and ALIPAC?
Let's say you had been successful. So what? What would have been accomplished? How does much of what ALIPAC does impact protests or anything else we decide to stage? And, of course, the idea that rational points or injections of facts were going to win the day in this bitter ego festival that has been befouling border security efforts for over a year ... Sweet Jesus, Jean. Use the brain God gave you. That's exactly what we want to do, right? Let's pull a Nightingale. Let's just inject the entire organization into this trailer-park caliber turf war with no benefit accruing to any party. That was just an exercise in getting nothing accomplished that could only have downside. Last edited by DerailAmnesty.com; 11-19-2009 at 10:29 PM.
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#6
11-19-2009, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Last edited by Jeanfromfillmore; 11-19-2009 at 11:59 PM.
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#7
11-20-2009, 07:23 AM
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One thing that we should remember is not to fall into the same hole that injured SOS's ability to attract and keep good activists to attend events and associate with. We will not banish people for their other associations, nor should we speak ill of them because they have alliances and relationships with others. Everyone is welcome here within the corporate guidelines and agenda, and is willing to follow the written forum rules. This would include Schwilk, Gheen, Mike Williams, and even, well.....
My email had one narrowly tapered purpose that was aimed at re-assuring victims of the earlier regime at SOS that they were not going to face the same fate at the hands of the same executioner if they attempted to place faith in the name of this organization again. It was solely the actions of one individual I was refuting and repudiating, although there were a few of us that participated at that persons behest too. It is not about Nightingales candidacy, her friends, or her other associations. Just what she did here that drove people away from SOS. I guess it was to be expected that some would circle their wagons around her for thier own reasons. I don't see any good purpose in provoking them and thereby creating animosity within our own organization due to allegiances others have there in tandem. Gheen pretty much already told me I wasn't welcome within his ranks because I objected to his assault on Glenn Spencer a few months ago. No single person has to suffer over my individual actions unless he makes that so. If you want to continue with ALIPAC and Gheen, you certainly have my blessing, for whatever that's worth anyway, and no harm in any sense of the word will come from me or this corporation over your other associations. Same applies to SDMM, SOCALPatriots, CCIR, MMP, or any other groups or organizations that share common goals. All that said, This corporation and this organization is allowed to keep its' own house in order. Along with keeping spam advertisers, hitlerian fanatics, and pornographic posters from limiting our audience goes our right to advertise to the general public that we have changed our management and why. Other people can certainly voice an opinion on that issue, but I don't see any benefit to them engaging in an "us vs them" program over our internal management.
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#8
11-22-2009, 10:01 AM
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You miss the entire point(s). 1. There is little or nothing to be gained by settling this. What William Gheen or Jeff Schwilk loudly proclaim has practically no impact on anything we do. 2. If you've followed the path of this moronic squabble (Gheen/Nightingale, et al. v. Gilchrist/Spencer) you realize that reasoned points will never change anyone's mind. 3. By posting your writings on this website, and the accompanying responses, you are successfully A) Giving importance and credibility to the debate, and B) dragging this fledgling organization directly into the middle of the conflict in the same fashion as did Chelene Nightingale. Jean, I like you, I think you're far from stupid or a drama queen, but that rates up there with some of the most boneheaded moves I have seen in the past few years. I cannot imagine what possessed you to pursue this stupid argument, and in such a public fashion that included in Save Our State. There was nothing to be accomplished by what you attempted, and could more likely result in the same divisions among our membership that tore apart some of the organization we are trying to rebuild. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I was really astounded by what you posted.
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#9
11-22-2009, 11:43 AM
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I'm a little unclear on what is exactly your issue with Jean, DA.
Are you condeming her for responding to Gheen, condeming her for defending SOS, or for relaying that to our readers?
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#10
11-22-2009, 02:37 PM
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I don't see how because I spelled it out pretty clearly in my last post. Reread what I wrote. Therein lies what I think are the (obvious) reasons publicly carrying on this "debate" in our forum is more than a foolish exercise. Let me make this simpler: As soon as you can point out to me the benefit that would have accrued to us had Jean been entirely successful, you will have laid the first section of a reasonable refutation of what I stated. Let's just suppose that Jean's reasoned arguments had ever had a snowball's chance in Hell of succeeding, rather than generating the more-than-predictable blustery outburst about Gilchrist, organizational responses, choosing sides and other Nightingale-esque nonsense. You tell me what that would have been our gain. Last edited by DerailAmnesty.com; 11-22-2009 at 02:39 PM.
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