Democrats, slavery, Irish, and Indians

[ilbegone]

The evidently inevitable discussion about whether race indicates certain beliefs and certain predispositions, a discussion I find distasteful and essentially a counterproductive waste of time.

EVERYONE is prejudiced about something, even Mother Teresa. It's what one does with it that counts.

As well, the premise of your post could be interpreted as affirmative of the approximate brown racist quote:

"They are shitting their pants with fear. They are dying and they aren't making babies, they know we are going to outnumber them."

We can't go back to the 1950's in any fashion - the Cleavers, the Olsons, town of Mayberry and Fred McMurry are long gone - not the least with race relations. Sure there are those who stir up racial issues where there were none before their immediate presence, and there are those who have unjustified chips on their shoulders. But, not everyone is alike and we can get past the chips and baggage of most people who have them.

I don't care about the melatonin shade of America, I care that America remains American - race does not indicate nationality or ethnicity. America was something that never was before, the experiment admired for its surprising viability and envy for its general success. We now have misguided people who are changing the character of America into an emasculated version of something else.

The issue is illegal immigration, not race. The opposition has cornered the marketability of race in every realm; legal, educational, and social. You can understand what motivates certain people and identify propaganda they may dispense by studying the larger cultural and historical world they claim to come from, but you can't win by bad mouthing race.

To me, those who come from elsewhere are merely symptoms of the problem, the disease originates in America with American citizens of every race. You can deport every last illegal from whatever continent, culture, or race they come from, but you can't cure the disease without rooting out the cause of the disease which originates in America.

[Ayatollahgondola]

Originally Posted by ilbegone

. You can deport every last illegal from whatever continent, culture, or race they come from, but you can't cure the disease without rooting out the cause of the disease which originates in America.

But it's worth try, just for kicks if nothing else

[ilbegone]

Back to the Irish:

This is generalized and simplified to my best belief as to fact...

I believe that there has been more blood shed over the centuries in the name of Jesus, Prince of Peace, than perhaps any other single cause. Quite a large percentage of this was between the Catholic and protestant faiths from the Reformation split on.

The Spanish conquest of Latin America has been characterized as the last Catholic Crusade, English colonization of and much of subsequent Northern European immigration to North America had protestant "chosen people" overtones as well.

There had been credible threat of invasion of Anglican/protestant England from Catholic Ireland from Tudor times on, and at least one rebellion was instigated and aided by the Catholic French. Catholic Spain had some designs for Ireland against England as well, but it didn't come to fruition.

As there were political and other dangers to England from Ireland, England tried but failed with the same coercive subjugation which was more successful in the Celtic areas of Britain, such as Scotland. In fact, while all the royalty and regal linage are inter-related in the most confusing manner (to me, at least - inbreeding wasn't limited to isolated mountain communities and it seems all European royalty were at least cousins. Example: German Speaking English King George I of the House of Hanover. Born in and Elector of the German State of Hanover, related to every other person who has ever ascended the English throne - I believe he was the closest male relative to Queen Anne and was imported from Germany to ascend the throne after she died) the House of Tudor originated in Celtic Wales.

Failing coercion, there was a 17th century push to send (essentially exile) Irish to other places in the empire where there was no Catholicism, the faith and Irish nationalism would erode in the exiles and the population within Ireland was diminished.

By the 1840's there was a international protestant expression of millinnialism, a revival of sorts with an expectancy of the return of Jesus and his Kingdom, of which American protestants saw themselves as the chosen people - a belief inherited from 17th century English Puritans. There was apparently a revival of some sort as well among Irish Catholics (in Ireland) as to their own beliefs.

Irish who came to America from the 1820's through the American Civil War were stubborn concerning their faith and resentful of anything relating to England and Puritanism (New England was founded by Puritans), which was extremely destructive in Ireland during the middle 17th century (Cromwell). Irish immigrants of this period to America tended to give blind assistance to corrupt political machines such as Tammany Hall (which gained power by catering to immigrants, exchanging benefits for immigrant votes), remained Irish nationalistic, and were supportive of the American south and slavery.

While there were Irish civil war draft riots in the north during the Civil war, many Irish came to America at that time for several reasons: An enlistment bonus equal to at least ten years of wages as an Irish farmhand or to get military training with which to rebel against Britain upon return to Ireland, as well as some related others. In fact, there were several Irish raids into British Canada from America during and after the American Civil war by a secret Irish society in America which had a membership of something like 50,000. They generally had no loyalties to America and generally no interest in becoming American due to Irish nationalism.

They generally had no qualms about deserting and switching sides from Union Blue, whether it was to the Mexican Army in the 1840's or the Confederate Army in the 1860's.

There were long memories on both sides which went back at least two hundred years, and neither side was very accepting of the other - suspicion and prejudicial hatred were mutual. It was about old history, nationalism, and religion. Those things are conveniently forgotten in modern propagandistic accusations attempting to use the distant past to corroborate the notion of universal white racism against people with Latin America origins.

[ilbegone]

Something interesting about 19th century German immigrants to America...

They tended to resist assimilation, and used the German language as a primary means to do so. In 1836 there was an idea floated around by the German Society of Philadelphia to create a new German fatherland comprised of one or more of the states.

Attempts were made on the area around St. Louis in both Missouri and Illinois and Wisconsin state by the German Society of Philadelphia, and the Republic of Texas was targeted by the German society of New York. The first two didn't get far off the ground, but the cause of a German Texas was picked up by some German nobles who pushed the idea in the German states.

Spanning 1842 to 1857, around 35,000 Germans immigrated to Texas - maybe totaling 16% to 17% of the population of Texas.

The good farmland they individually settled was crowded with native born Americans and immigrants of other nationalities. The German immigrants to Texas assimilated.

Some densely packed German majority localities in the mid-west resisted cultural assimilation until the 20th century.

[wetibbe]

The evidently inevitable discussion about whether race indicates certain beliefs and certain predispositions, a discussion I find distasteful and essentially a counterproductive waste of time.

It is counter productive and also a waste of time. All too many people don't even know what I am talking about and can't , in any event, interpret and assimilate my message.

[ilbegone]

I get exactly what you are talking about.

There is living memory in my house of being on the receiving end of 1950's white exclusion of minorities. The same person has also had bad experiences with Mexican nationals for not being fully culturally Mexican.

Does that person judge all whites and all browns by those experiences?

No.

Is that person sympathetic of illegals from Latin America and American brown supremacist agenda?

No.

Is there a victimization complex on some who are described as minorities?

Yes.

Is this complex universal with every person of the minority "persuasion"?

No.

Within the Nation of Mexico among Mexican citizens as a part of the Mexican national consciousness is there a cultural inferiority complex with an endless litany of rote victimization claims, many concerning the United States - and by extension, white Americans?

Yes.

Do all past and present Mexican nationals and descendants of Mexican nationals ascribe to victimization theory?

No.

Are there white Americans, at least one who has posted here, who would (or have at least expressed a general desire to) come to my house to evict from the nation a life long, American born citizen with the spurious charge of being an "Anchor baby"?

Yes. And I promise a lesson for any who presume to do so.

I agree that migration in larger numbers than assimilation can handle is harmful and that such policy allowing the problem needs to be changed, however:

The only difference between white supremacists and racists of any other race is that they work different corners of the same street.

It's time to get past the blind concept of racial notions and deal with the problem of racism from all races from the Mexica movement to Mecha to the Black Panthers to the Aryan Nations and much more, from wherever it derives. Racism is an equal opportunity disease, doesn't much care which race by which it is expressed.

Illegal immigration is not about race, and if anyone on the anti-illegal side makes it so they lose precisely because it's not 1956 anymore.

It's that simple.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

Don't you think it's time that minorities stop using the expression "My people"? Just that expression is taken so differently depending on who is saying it.