Americans need not apply, we're not worth much

[DerailAmnesty.com]

[QUOTE=Jeanfromfillmore;22112]I lived in a UCLA dorm for three years and saw first hand what was happening and that was 15 years ago. Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening. Those graduating our high schools can't compete to even get in many of our universities and the schools prefer those that pay more. Wake up people, an uneducated society gets taken over. Almost all that come here internationally never leave and take the better working positions. Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!! If you don't believe this you aren't wanting to see it and pretend it doesn't exsist. It does. Why should they bother with immigration when they can just come through our school system and never leave. But some would say that's ok, because it's legal. Well, then get ready for a country you dont' recognize. After all isn't their objective to give this country to the world? Why should Americans have it? We're all immigrants, and so the propaganda goes. Yes, no one talks about the impact of our schools on this country unless they're trying to throw more money at it.

I probably couldn't disagree with what you wrote, above, more. Firstly, you've said several things that are simply inaccurate. Including ...

1) Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening.

Actually Jean, the large majority of students at those 3 campuses are Americans. There is, unquestionably, a considerable overrepresentation of Asians at those schools, like at almost every college in California, but most of them are Asian-Americans. Even at SC, a school that gets a considerable number of Chinese students from overseas. "Americans need not apply" is just a gross misstatement. On every campus listed in that article you linked, Americans comprise the LARGE majority of students.

2) Almost all that come here internationally never leave and take the better working positions.

This statement is just patently false. The large majority don't qualify for permanent legal residence. Most foreign college graduates are only permitted to stay an extra year after graduation for the purposes of getting practical field-related job experience, then they are required to return home.

These kids are differently situated than "DREAM Act" candidates. They are not going to grab some job waiting tables or work at a fast food restaurant w/ a stolen Soc. Sec. number. They are expected by their families to work in the profession for which they prepared. Most go home or enroll in grad school.

You don't land a job at Apple, IBM or some other major corporation w/ identification papers you picked up in McCarthur Park.

When I was working overseas, I lived (for a time) in a foreigners dormitory (They group foreigners up in Japan to keep an eye on them, and b/c few Japanese landlords will actually rent to "gaijin") There were a number of Japanese young people living there w/ us (voluntarily) b/c they were afraid their English skills and American socialization would otherwise wear off. Almost all had graduated from four-year colleges in the U.S., and had already exhausted the one-year-after-college time allowance. They were madly scrambling around to re-attain some method of legal residence in the U.S. H1-B visas are limited and they've only become even harder to get since 9/11.

This situation, above, is what Mitt Romney was referring to when he spoke about "stapling a green card" to the bottom of some foreign students' college diplomas. Right now, we mass import uneducated illegal aliens from Latin America and send home foreign students who have completed degrees. It is a ridiculous, self-defeating situation for our country. We exclude many of the terribly capable (and potential taxpayers) and welcome a bunch of WIC recipients and overbreeders.

C) Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!!

Almost completely false. Foreigners who studied at colleges here and then open American businesses, if they manage to obtain residency (often times by marriage, faked or legitimate), VERY commonly hire Americans, and they do so for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they want to put up an "American" image. Other times, they do so b/c they desperately want to employ people who understand the local culture, American peculiarities/customs/idiosyncracies/socialization, and most commonly b/c most of the available folks who possess the skills they require are college-educated Americans.

We're not talking about a factory, car wash, tree-trimming service or restaurant (where they pack in illiterate El Salvadoreans and folks from Oaxaca), but a tech-related, educational or professional endeavor. I know b/c I've seen them. I've worked in such businesses. One of the longest-standing gigs I had was as an in-house attorney for an Israeli immigrant who started four businesses serving children w/ developmental disabilities. He employed approximately 150 people, two of whom I believe were other Israelis. Further, I know for a fact he hired me b/c, among other things, I am an American Jew. He wanted to be able to trust me and have me explain a thousand things about interactions and specific situations (law related and non-law related) that only someone who grew up in the United States would understand.

Additionally, I was employed for a few years, back in the 90's, by a pair of immigrant Korean-owned businesses. About half their work staff was Korean-American or Korean immigrant, however, they made a point of hiring Americans (mostly white, that's commonly important w/ the Far East Asians) to "show off" to their customers/clients. Native-born U.S. citizens w/ degrees are very "prestigious" from their perspective and we were all treated and compensated better than the Koreans they employed.
________

Insofar as public colleges admitting more foreign students, so that they can make up for budget shortfalls in states w/ financial problems, that is 100% A-OK w/ me. It makes complete financial sense to bring in a student who will pay in $30K in tuition, rather than one who will pay $10K.

From my perspective, a perfect universe in California would include every illegal alien and anchor baby enrolled at a community college, Cal State or UC being dismissed from the campuses they are attending, and being replaced w/ academically qualified students who legally enter from Peru, Taiwan, China, India, Iran, Israel, etc. Far better that than taxing Californians w/ Prop 30. Let's reduce the taxation burden, forget the provisions for financial aid for illegal aliens, and invite more qualified folks from overseas to attend the schools for which they academically qualify and can afford.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

I was wondering how long it would take you to pop your head out. It wouldn't matter what I wrote, you wouldn't agree with it. You have a problem with anything I write, yes the sky is blue Sam. Since you don't and may never have children, it isn't a problem that there may not be a place for them in our schools. When I mentioned businesses, I was thinking small businesses, where more often than not the family members, legal or not, are the employees; especially where I live. The dorm where I lived (with 375 residents) had 45% Asian mostly form China and that was 15 yrs ago. Most already had jobs before they granduated. That's gone up. And as far as those that graduate not leaving, you're a fool if you dont' know that most don't.

[DerailAmnesty.com]

On this particular occasion, Jean, your problem is not the low opinion I have of you. Rather, it is the substance of what you’ve asserted, most of which is simply wrong. These things are not a matter of opinion, they’re easily verifiable.

When you say Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening, that’s just not right.

You certainly don’t have to take my word for it. Here are the statistics for the schools you listed. The LARGE majority of students on the campuses are Americans:

USC - 12% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...123961#enrolmt

UCLA - 6% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...110662#enrolmt

Stanford - 8% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...243744#enrolmt


Further, when you opine that Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!!, that’s wrong also.

I can assure you, Jean, that Google employs many people who are not Russians, the large majority of folks hired by Intel have not been Hungarians, and that most people working for Hovnanian Homebuilders are not Iraqis. Don’t believe it? Try walking into one of their offices or places of business. Those are all California entities.

Hey, if you like, trot across the Yahoo! campus at 24th and Broadway in Santa Monica. I do all the time. It’s less than two miles from my home. If promise you that if you do, you’re going to see a majority of people working there aren’t Chinese.

[Ayatollahgondola]

Originally Posted by DerailAmnesty.com

On this particular occasion, Jean, your problem is not the low opinion I have of you. Rather, it is the substance of what you’ve asserted, most of which is simply wrong. These things are not a matter of opinion, they’re easily verifiable.

When you say Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening, that’s just not right.

You certainly don’t have to take my word for it. Here are the statistics for the schools you listed. The LARGE majority of students on the campuses are Americans:

USC - 12% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...123961#enrolmt

UCLA - 6% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...110662#enrolmt

Stanford - 8% of undergraduates are foreign students; http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/...243744#enrolmt


Further, when you opine that Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!!, that’s wrong also.

I can assure you, Jean, that Google employs many people who are not Russians, the large majority of folks hired by Intel have not been Hungarians, and that most people working for Hovnanian Homebuilders are not Iraqis. Don’t believe it? Try walking into one of their offices or places of business. Those are all California entities.

Hey, if you like, trot across the Yahoo! campus at 24th and Broadway in Santa Monica. I do all the time. It’s less than two miles from my home. If promise you that if you do, you’re going to see a majority of people working there aren’t Chinese.

She has a point about many of the colleges seeking more foreign students. The stats may be as you say now, but the schools are actively seeking more foreigners. One of my kids was passed over at Berkley for foreign students who had lesser grades, and that was nearly four years ago. Since then, there has been several articles I've read, and especially so lately, about the USC and others marketing stronger to foreigners. I suppose it matters a little where you are in terms of what you see on campus, but I am getting a whiff of trend. It's not that hard to believe either. Job gains by foreigners and immigrants have been reported to be strong this past few years also. I don't think that the architects of this immigration scheme care if they are illegals or legals, and when the economy is down and you have a tough time selling congress on raising caps on foreign workers, it makes sense they would market the schools in place of that.

the foreigners hiring thing is true, but largely to the extent of low tec verses hi tech. Foreigners who get a degree in business management or accounting or something akin to that, and then open a market, restaurant, or motel, will generally hire other immigrants, and often from their own origin. I see it alot in grocery stores owned by asians, even the bigger, newer supermarket types. All fellow asians and a few latino.
Now high tech is a bit different. You're right that they will hire anyone.

[DerailAmnesty.com]

Here's the problem w/ what you asserted -

The "points" authored by Jean, that you are attempting to defend, are not what she stated. Here's what she did state: 1) Go to a university campus such as USC, Stanford, UCLA and you'll see "AMERICANS NEED NOT APPLY" is what is happening. 2) Almost all that come here internationally never leave and take the better working positions. 3) Those that start businesses only hire their own, not Americans!!!

These assertions are simply wrong. Demonstrably so.

Had any "point" she made been one of the ones you described above, your contentions would bear some weight. They just weren't, however.

Further, I failed to mention earlier: Those graduating our high schools can't compete to even get in many of our universities ... That one's wrong too, Davi. If you think I'm mistaken, please give me even a partial list of those American universities wherein U.S. high school graduates can't compete for admission.

You can forget the examples she listed, if you like. Can you name ANY (legitimately accredited) four-year institution in the U.S. wherein foreign students make up even half the student body? A college or university, I'll accept either.