Ayatollah's Amnesty Battle Advice
 

By now, we should be as good as our opposition for 1/10th of the price.

You have to remember that the illegal's lobby is fighting us, not the other way around. I know it may seem inversely so, due to the barrage of media propaganda that continually portray the burgeoning latino population as this unstoppable stampede of power and might, but at this point, they are still quite in the minority and very dependent upon the media's tenuous grip of the American information network. Politicians are not always so trusting of what they see on TV though, because they have to actually be concerned about the ballot box results, not what NBC says. They do understand the term "upset" where political races are concerned.
Anyway, the law is already cast, and the latino lobby is the one who has to spend big to try and sway votes. We just have to defend the fort, and we already have lots of practice. We don't have to learn a lot of new things here, but rather make the very, very best of what we already know. We know who to call...Congress and the Senate. We generally know how to interact with them...polite but stern, knowledgeable but not supreme. We also know what has worked in the past as a defense against the illegals lobby:

Cost of legalization

The sacrificing of our values

The weakening of our defenses

The failures of the previous amnesty


With that bit of knowledge as our guide, let's go on to some newer items for your consideration.

We've been reading alot from our usual allies in this battle, and they have been offering some good points. On the economy side, there are a lot of arguments about the benefits of legalization as far as tax revenue. We all know that some illegals pay taxes and some work underground. I see weakness in both of these areas. Let's start with those who pay. If they get green cards and temporary work status, they can pay taxes...but.....they can also get refunds. The feds allow you to claim refunds up to 3 years ago. If an illegal worked under a false number for x number of years, and then was fearless about coming clean with the past, they could file 3 years worth of returns, claiming all of the earned income credits and anything else, and demand a refund of all monies paid into the account they "wrongly" used during that period. What would inspire them to come clean you ask? Why H & R Block would, that's who. There'd be an advertising barrage in S-Pan-Yol about 6 months or less after any status was granted, urging all recent green carder's to contact the Liberty Tax, or H & R Block company to claim your refunds before the time runs out! I smell a run on the treasury there. Sure the feds will pay them with newly printed dollars that seem to come from the magical money tree, but there are still congresspersons and senators that stress about the wallet. They may not realize the retroactive consequence of legalizing the cheaters.

Not that the treasury is the only ones that should be worried about retroactivity. Emboldened illegals will be encouraged to report all the bosses that have been paying them under the table or otherwise taking liberties with the employment laws. An illegal isn't going to suffer if he reports that he worked for cash for Jim's Plastering for the past 4 years; that's not how the system works. Jim's Plastering will be who the IRS holds responsible for the money NOT withheld Jose's paycheck. Every Jim's Plastering, or Mike's homebuilder's needs to be made aware of this. At present, those companies that have employed people unlawfully might be thinking how great it may be to finally have their treasured low wage workers legalized so they won't have to fear losing them to the deportation bogeyman, or so they can get a drivers license. They may not be so eager if they are advised that they could easily be liable for 3 years worth of taxes, penalties, and interest for improper withholding. And why wouldn't Jose report him? Jose is now legal to move about the country, and get a job anywhere. No need for loyalties now

This brings us to another, largely unexplored, but likely unintended consequence of legalization: Unemployment benefits. Illegals granted legal status would be subject to the state laws on unemployment benefits, and states would be powerless to stop them from immediately applying based upon monies owed, but not collected from previous employers the prior two or so years. The laws are written as such. The employees are the victims, and the state the deep pockets. They front the money once the employment has been established, and then go after the employer...if they're still standing after the IRS has already gotten to them. The states administer the unemployment system, but the feds have been subsidizing them for decades. California owes the feds millions already for money lent to cover years worth of unemployment checks during this seemingly interminable last recession, and this would compound the debt and exacerbate the problem. Both the state and the feds should be considering where they will be coughing up this unplanned stress on their coffers.

And then comes the last bit of worrisome prospects, the ones who don't pay taxes. Legal residents are eligible for welfare benefits that they have been previously denied. This means all the mothers and fathers who had before, only managed the money that welfare granted to their American born children, will immediately be able to apply for benefits themselves, or as heads of households. Let's face reality on one thing; it ain't 11 million, it's 17 million illegals, and they're still a'comin' as of today. Anyone with half a brain knows that all of them don't work, can't work, or don't really want to anymore. You've seen them lying on serapes at parks, peddling pushcarts full of homemade bacteria laden foods, or just sitting at home on the porch with a trash can overflowing with crushed cardboard 12 pack beer cartons. These folks will not be going to work in motels, building bridges, or mowing lawns. They can't. They're overweight, smell of beer, and don't like authority. They'll mooch off the system, and legally so now. We could easily see a 6 million bump in welfare recipient applicants almost overnight. I say almost overnight, because just like H & R Block jumping on the tax refund bandwagon, there'll be a bunch of former ambulance chasing latino law firms speading ads all across the barrios in every US city enticing recently granted illegals to come on into the office and let us show you how to get your free welfare check, just like the ones you see on late night TV now urging lazy people how to get SSI checks because you are "disabled". And who says that a significant portion of the 17 million aren't elegible for the minimum SSI check for being disabled too?

These are a few of the unplanned-for, and undiscussed side effects of an amnesty. We need to spread these points far and wide, and express them to our reps in washington. we also need to inform every employer out there that if you've been paying an illegal for any definable length of time, an amnesty is ticking monetary time bomb with the potential to draw the auditors from either the feds, the state, or both to their offices with a magnifying glass and the power to penalize and lein.

I'm going to add in one last thought for everyone to hit their senators with right now in regards to an amnesty. Right now, gun control is a hot, hot subject. Guns on the streets, guns in the hands of criminals, guns in the hands of mentally unstable people are the most common terms we've been hammered with in the news.
They're worried in Washington about how many guns are sold in America each year. So what happens then, when you grant 15 or even 12 million illegals a green card? That's lawful permanent status, even if only temporarily so. This means, for the feds anyway, that they can legally buy, own, and use whatever guns are legal to have in what state they reside in. Background checks are going to be a bit sketchy on an illegal, because they might not have much history, beings' that they may have been using false ID's in their past lives. Ask your gun hating senators whether an amnestied illegal is good to go to buy a gun if they can pass the backround check currently proposed to be eligible for legal status? Remember that many municipalities have purposely been witholding felony charges in favor of misdemeanors so that illegals wouldn't face deportation proceedings after felony convictions. Aside from the outrage that existing citizens who have been convicted of felonies for similar crimes that illegals have recieved favorable treatment for, do your senators want to suddenly unleash 12 million gun buying foreigners in the low income areas where most of them currently reside? I don't see anywhere in the current amnesty where that has been considered, nor the value of any background check has on a person who has made a lifetime habit of fraud, deciet and subterfuge where identity is concerned

Make your calls ladies and gentlemen. Plant the seeds of doubt in Washington!

Davi Rodrigues

Save Our State

Excellent!
 

Davi, Thanks for this. It is very insightful and highlights many of the problems amnesty will cause, things I have never thought about. I will use it when I compose my letters and as back up for my verbal confrontations.

It all makes sense....amnesty is not the answer....unless, of course, you WANT to bankrupt our already fragile economy.

Thanks for reading Lassie, and do spread the link around so others can benefit from my worldly insight, or mindless bloviation, depending on which side of the Ayatollah credibility factor you happen to be on. :D

Lol
 

OF COURSE!!! Already done.

Great advice!

I used the 12 million new gun owners on Boxer and Feinslime today. I really like it, as they're trying to confiscate guns. I would love them to know that they are bringing in millions on new gun owners. I know that they don't care, but it's just more reasons to keep calling them.

Thanks for the letter.

I think they will care once the reality of that sinks in. I doubt they will be as comfortable with the premise of 12 million people more likely voting democrat than they would 12 million being anti gun

Actually, you might want to read my second bloviation on the gun issue that explains it more in depth:

http://saveourstate.info/showthread.php?t=7552

Unfortunately the Republican Party doesn't seem to have anyone with a prayer of winning any major election who values or even sees the importance of these things. To them the only thing that matters is pandering to the Latino community for votes since so few Hispanics voted for Romney in the last election, and they really don't care if selling out on illegal immigration conflicts with what's really good for the country. And the Catch-22 is that without winning elections we can never stop amnesty. And as for the Democratic Party, well, what more can you say? Follow the money.

I tried the 12-20 million new gun owners in the poorest neighborhoods in America. I have to say it came off of my tongue smoothly and the call takers at Feinslime and Boxers office actually listened.

I think I'm reserving this argument for the Democrat's, because they're the ones who want gun control and less guns.

I'd say the republicans have villainized the democrats as being anti gun, the same way the democrats have villainized the republicans as being anti immigrant. I think the truth is though, that by the time you reach the stature and power of congressperson or senator, you fear an armed populace equally so, whether you are a democrat or a republican. That's one of the inherent seductions of power and priviledge. But relating to your strategy, I think that republicans being more law 'n' order oriented, might be as receptive to pause on the amnesty steam roller to address this unplanned problem. Rubio, for instance, is in Florida, a state with a lot of illegals, gun crimes, and an earlier history of foreign drug gangs fighting it out on the streets of large cities. Even a war mongering latino panderer like him remembers how bad the violence was back then, and might not want to revive those days again.
You just have to remind him, and other republicans that these people have been taught that the federal laws can be ignored. We've conditioned them to corruption. Now we're going to allow them to arm themselves legally, within our communities.

I'm having trouble understanding the connection between the guns and amnesty issues. Are we assuming that more illegal aliens = more illegal guns? Or just more guns, period? I don't see how that follows.

Each illegal alien that is granted lawful status, ie a green card, is good to buy guns in the entire US. Immediately. And these are green card holders, not citizens. And these are green card holders that previously thumbed their noses at the law....federal law, and in many cases have been spared gun prohibiting prosecutions in previous encounters with the law so as not to trigger deportation proceedings.

I might also add that green card holders don't necessarily learn the responsibilities that accompany the second amendment. Citizens learn it in school, and immigrants learn it to pass the naturalization process. Green card holders learn about guns elsewhere. In your area, they'd be learning from fellow mexicans, gang members, etc. I predict an enormous amount of Obama's grantees would fall victim to gang members getting them to buy guns for them.

I think I see what you're saying, but you seem to be assuming that the ability of newly legalized illegals to access guns would make a difference in the thinking of the pro-amnesty lobby. I doubt that it would.

No, Phil. I'm thinking it will make a difference to elite lawmakers

Ayatollah, You have a lot of great suggestions as well as a lot of original thinking about different strategy in posting doubt into the minds of Senators.

I'm quite sure that they are well aware of our calls and our opposition and the intensity that we exert in fighting the amnesty proposal. I think sheer numbers of calls and call volume also register.

What I doubt though is if they are really listening to our reasons and our arguments against the legalization. We are not going to change the minds of Boxer, Feinslime, Rubio, McCain, Grahamnesty, ETC.

I feel like my calls are just to add to the overall intensity of the outcry against the amnesty. Just to get Rubio's office to understand that his reputation is being reduced among the Republican ranks to "Treason". I think they register the hatred that they are cultivating.

When I call I also feel like I'm a kind of "Tokyo Rose", with my daily calls to demoralize the call takers. Lately I relish anouncing which Republican Senators have come out against the amnesty, or called Rubio "Naive".
That makes the call takers feel like their losing and more isolated. They don't argue back. I want them to feel "Alone" against our on-slot.

Really? I don't know why it would just now be occurring to them, but I'm sure they'll find a way to spin it if the issue is ever raised publicly. Frankly I don't even know why they would ever connect amnesty with guns. This is the first time I'm aware of anyone bringing up the issue of guns in all of the arguments which have been made vis-a-vis amnesty over the last 30 years.

Yeah, Phil but Gun control is an equally hot agenda for them right now. And it's no accident or mere coincidence. They are combining forces to attack simultaneously to keep us divided and overwhelmed. Bringing this up now at least makes them choose one over another, and it allows us to say, "I told you so" when gun violence ratchets up in foreigner rich areas if amnesty is granted.
Personally, I think many of the so referred to bleeding heart liberals are going to think twice about amnesty when taught that all of the new green card holders are good to purchse assault weapons, (their term, not mine), handguns, etc, based upon the background checks that also clear them for amnesty

I'm wondering how it would fly in a congressional debate over amnesty if the congressmen who have been pro-amnesty until now were to suddenly use that argument as a rationale for changing for their minds on the issue. I'm guessing they would never even try it for fear of being labelled racists and sellouts.

Planting such an idea in their heads is not to say that's the one they cite for their failure to support amnesty. Maybe they say they lost enthusiam for the deal over something else. But the one's already not on board will have another reason not to join, and also don't have to say why.
One thing I've learned out there with the billboard is that alot people don't share their real feelings in public. I'm guessing many legislators and congresspersons are that way as well.

Useless.
 

With the current mindset of the administration now in power it's essentially one step short of hopeless.

Favorably the Commander in Chief is apparently cleaning house sending cabinet members packing in drives. But not the right ones for immigration.

Senator Jeff Sessions is demanding that ICE director John Morton be sent packing for failing to enforce immigration and customs laws. And the lesbian squirrel Janet too is the major facilitator for the tsunami of invaders.

Whenever you see that cabal of 8 Senators promoting immigration reform you know the Republicans are rolling over.

I don't have the answer. I only know that it is really very bad and it isn't likely to get better.

Pessimistic ? - Yep!

When the biopsy says it's cancer, it's cancer.

8 senators peddling snake oil is hardly a sure sign of a law being enacted. The RINO's aren't unanimously supported by the republicans, and they sure as hell aren't that well respected by the liberals. They're ain't no deal; there's just a handful of egos strutting around like they own the place so far.

Maybe some of you heard this on the news, but others who don't live in California may not be aware of it; In June of this year here in California the Hispanic/Latino population will equal the White population and by the end of the year they will have surpassed it (somewhere around 38%; that may not be accurate but close). This was not suppose to happen this quickly, but Mexico told them to breed and take California back and they have.

Once they have a majority we will probably see something like a mob mentality and things could start to fall apart quickly. Who knows, but it's not looking good for California.

I've been questioning the data that is being bandied about in that regard. Who are they counting? Illegals too? There's at least two million and maybe as much as 4. In addition, how does latino numbers stack up against asian, which is another fast growing block, and how did that relate to the white vs other? Personally I think the press is fear mongering.

I assume they were considering that Whites were the majority or the largest percentage but that is being surpassed by Hispanics/Latinos. Asians are all lumped together I'm guessing. What they're (the media) is saying is that by the end of the year Latinos/Hispaics, legal or not, will be the highest persentage of any race here in California. It doesn't matter to them if they're legal or not, they still consider them having power just by their numbers. They gave them that power by catering to their every need or desire and it's an in your face to anyone who disagrees with their social engineering.

There's power in numbers and Mexico knew that years ago. They've impacted our courts and jail system to the point where we can't handle the load; that was the plan. Now they will take over our political system by having the votes once they get amnesty. Basically, the left gave California to Mexico. This didn't just happen, Mexicans have been saying they would do this for years now.