Most young Latinos U.S.-born, feel labeled as immigrants, study finds

[ilbegone]

Most young Latinos U.S.-born, feel labeled as immigrants, study finds



December 14, 2009

By DAVID OLSON
The Press-Enterprise

Two-thirds of young Latinos are now U.S.-born, a shift from 14 years ago when nearly half were immigrants and a portent of an increasingly Latino U.S. society, a new study finds.

“If you want to understand what America will be like in the 21st century, you need to understand how young Latinos … will grow up,” said Paul Taylor, director of the Pew Hispanic Center, the Washington, D.C.-based nonpartisan research organization that is releasing the report today.

Latinos now comprise 18 percent of all U.S. youths and 42 percent of California youths, which Pew defines as people aged 16 to 25.

No U.S. minority ethnic group has ever made up such a large share of the nation’s young people, Taylor said. It reflects the influx of nearly 40 million immigrants between 1965 and 2008, half of them Latin American.

More than 15 percent of U.S. residents are now Latino, according to 2008 U.S. Census estimates. In Riverside and San Bernardino counties, nearly 46 percent are.

The study used census demographic data to analyze young Hispanics’ economic and educational status, and a national survey of more than 2,000 young Latinos to probe issues of identity, life priorities and aspirations.

Even though the terms “Latino” and “Hispanic” are often used by the news media, politicians and Latino-advocacy organizations lump together the tens of millions of people with Latin American ancestry, 52 percent of young Latinos use national-origin words like “Mexican” or “Salvadoran” as the first term to identify themselves, compared to 20 percent who use “Hispanic” or “Latino” and 24 percent who use “American.”

Amanda Rudd, 19, of Riverside, is half European ancestry. Her maternal great-grandparents were born in Mexico but her mother and maternal grandparents were born in the United States. Rudd said she considers herself an American.

Yet, she said, “When people ask me, I say, ‘I’m Mexican-American’ or ‘half-Mexican.’ ” She doesn’t use “American” because “ ‘American’ is just a generic way of saying white.”

Jennifer Nájera, an assistant professor of ethnic studies at UC Riverside and an expert on Mexican-American culture, said most young Latinos’ preference to use terms other than “American” to initially identify themselves reflects society’s views of them. Popular culture often portrays Latinos as immigrants, even though most are not. Non-Hispanics often pigeonhole Latinos by their ethnicity and physical appearance in a way they do not for European immigrants and their descendants, she said.

Discrimination and other challenges that many Hispanics face can also affect Latinos’ self-identification, said Susan Brown, an associate professor of sociology at UC Irvine and an expert on generational trends among Latinos. Nearly 40 percent of young Latinos said they or a relative or close friend has been a victim of ethnic or racial discrimination.

Roy Beck, executive director of Virginia-based NumbersUSA, which supports greater limits on immigration, said young Latinos’ tendency to not identify first as Americans is “troubling.”

He said the constant waves of immigration into many of the neighborhoods where young Latinos live is continually exposing young Latinos to the language and culture of their ancestors’ homelands, making it more difficult for them to see themselves as American.

The study found that second-generation Latinos do much better than their immigrant parents economically and educationally, but the third generation and beyond tended to have higher poverty, school dropout and teen-pregnancy rates.

Ruben Rumbaut, a professor of sociology at UC Irvine and an expert on Latino generational patterns — who cautioned that there are relatively few descendants of non-Mexicans immigrants now in the third generation — said the second generation does better than the first because immigrant parents typically come to the United States for their children, and they push them to do well.

“By the third generation, that drive has faded,” Rumbaut said.

The Pew report is entitled “Between Two Worlds” and it illustrates how many young Latinos embrace both aspects of American culture and of the culture of their parents or grandparents.

By the second generation, 98 percent of young Latinos speak primarily English or use both English and Spanish. But 70 percent of all young Latinos say they sometimes speak “Spanglish,” a mix of English and Spanish.

Taylor said there was no similar research done on immigrants and their offspring 100 years ago. But he said it is possible young Latinos are more likely to preserve elements of their parents’ and grandparents’ culture because they are closer to their ancestors’ homelands and because Spanish-language TV and radio, e-mail, texting and other technological tools make it easier to stay in touch with relatives abroad and with Latin American culture.

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_LN_20091211_latinoyouth.351935672.html

[Kathy63]

When someone is open about their self identification and loyalty to another country, there is nothing wrong with classifying them as immigrant. The only other classification would be alien and disloyal American. Would they prefer that?

[Jeanfromfillmore]

Good point Kathy.

[usa today]

This report has been out a couple weeks now

It is the reason these whelps marched with mexican flags , they don't understand the concept of America
They will never be American

They should all be deported with their illegal parents

Sooner or later its going to get ugly

[JB_Parrothead]

How about labeling them as "Pseudo Citizens?" That's a way better description than "immigrants" who found their "road" to U.S. citizenship via the vagina of an illegal alien. We need to quit giving REAL immigrants a bad name by mixing them in with the criminals who break our immigration laws and the anchor babies they spawn.

[ilbegone]

I generally don't agree with the Pee-Yoo Hispanic Center, and I further believe Olson is biased due to his slanted education. Yet I placed this here as food for thought and I do believe there are elements in it which are correct.

Latinos now comprise 18 percent of all U.S. youths and 42 percent of California youths, which Pew defines as people aged 16 to 25.

No U.S. minority ethnic group has ever made up such a large share of the nation’s young people, Taylor said. It reflects the influx of nearly 40 million immigrants between 1965 and 2008, half of them Latin American.


****

"...American’ is just a generic way of saying white.”

I've caught myself using the word "American" when I meant "white" and "white" when I meant to say "American"
****

Popular culture often portrays Latinos as immigrants, even though most are not.

I believe this to be more true than not.

****

“Between Two Worlds”

For many, true.

***

By the second generation, 98 percent of young Latinos speak primarily English or use both English and Spanish. But 70 percent of all young Latinos say they sometimes speak “Spanglish,” a mix of English and Spanish.


There are degrees of Mexicanization. I believe Mexicanization of adults having Mexican parents and who grew up in America is greater in places where there is itinerant labor and the kids are shuffled around, sometimes returning to Mexico in the middle of the school year for a couple of months or so. I've seen it in those areas with adults who barely speak English or have heavily accented English. I've seen it mostly in agricultural areas, and some who grew up in heavily Mexicanized metropolitan areas. And these people still won't be recognized as "Mexican" by Mexican nationals, except in the racial sense. And many Mexicans will disapprove of their (imperceptable to us) lack of "Mexicaness". Think of Villaraigosa going to Mexico trying to prove to Mexicans that he's not pocho, the only reason they'll talk to him is because they perceive something to gain.

However, while not a scientific survey and it's only been a month, I have recently gone out of my way to take every opportunity to listen to junior high and high school Brown kids in Van Nuys (where white is definitely a minority), and was surprised to hear most of them doing their thing amongst each other in English. I've heard more Spanglish in San Bernardino.

On the other hand, I have noticed quite a few Mexican Nationals who speak a sufficient degree of English to conduct business try to get the white English speaker to speak Spanish, or have the Mexican National accompanying the English speaker or a child relay and conduct the business between them. It's pissed me off on several occasions at the way it was done, no respect.

On the other hand, something which blew me away was one occasion I witnessed school kids doing their homework while speaking English in their Mexican parent's small business, and the parents weren't fluent in English by any means. It's my belief that most Mexican parents tell their children to speak Spanish in the home and around them. I've only seen this before in Asian businesses.

****

Since the 60's, it's been a race based numbers game. Affirmative Action. Scholarships. Representation. Voting. The open borders people are counting on prejudicing those who can vote, hire, or do anything else beneficial for another person. 42% of people 16 to 25 in California are brown and the majority of those who are citizens will be eligible to vote in two years.

And the number is going to be bigger five years down the road.

I believe that many who are not the immediate descendants of illegal immigrants do not have sympathy for illegal migration - illegals beat them out of work just like they do white people. But the open borders crowd harp non stop about real, imagined, or invented "white racism" in order to turn whites into dehumanized oppressors of brown people.

So, my conclusion is that if the stand against illegal immigration is actually or widely perceived to be a stand concerning race rather than willful illegality, the battle is over. We can rightfully bitch about bullshit political correctness all we want, but it's not going to make any difference if we shovel ammunition to our enemies.

For what it's worth.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

I generally don't agree with the Pee-Yoo Hispanic Center, and I further believe Olson is biased due to his slanted education. Yet I placed this here as food for thought and I do believe there are elements in it which are correct.



****



I've caught myself using the word "American" when I meant "white" and "white" when I meant to say "American"
****



I believe this to be more true than not.

****



For many, true.

***



There are degrees of Mexicanization. I believe Mexicanization of adults having Mexican parents and who grew up in America is greater in places where there is itinerant labor and the kids are shuffled around, sometimes returning to Mexico in the middle of the school year for a couple of months or so. I've seen it in those areas with adults who barely speak English or have heavily accented English. I've seen it mostly in agricultural areas, and some who grew up in heavily Mexicanized metropolitan areas. And these people still won't be recognized as "Mexican" by Mexican nationals, except in the racial sense. And many Mexicans will disapprove of their (imperceptable to us) lack of "Mexicaness". Think of Villaraigosa going to Mexico trying to prove to Mexicans that he's not pocho, the only reason they'll talk to him is because they perceive something to gain.

However, while not a scientific survey and it's only been a month, I have recently gone out of my way to take every opportunity to listen to junior high and high school Brown kids in Van Nuys (where white is definitely a minority), and was surprised to hear most of them doing their thing amongst each other in English. I've heard more Spanglish in San Bernardino.

On the other hand, I have noticed quite a few Mexican Nationals who speak a sufficient degree of English to conduct business try to get the white English speaker to speak Spanish, or have the Mexican National accompanying the English speaker or a child relay and conduct the business between them. It's pissed me off on several occasions at the way it was done, no respect.

On the other hand, something which blew me away was one occasion I witnessed school kids doing their homework while speaking English in their Mexican parent's small business, and the parents weren't fluent in English by any means. It's my belief that most Mexican parents tell their children to speak Spanish in the home and around them. I've only seen this before in Asian businesses.

****

Since the 60's, it's been a race based numbers game. Affirmative Action. Scholarships. Representation. Voting. The open borders people are counting on prejudicing those who can vote, hire, or do anything else beneficial for another person. 42% of people 16 to 25 in California are brown and the majority of those who are citizens will be eligible to vote in two years.

And the number is going to be bigger five years down the road.

I believe that many who are not the immediate descendants of illegal immigrants do not have sympathy for illegal migration - illegals beat them out of work just like they do white people. But the open borders crowd harp non stop about real, imagined, or invented "white racism" in order to turn whites into dehumanized oppressors of brown people.

So, my conclusion is that if the stand against illegal immigration is actually or widely perceived to be a stand concerning race rather than willful illegality, the battle is over. We can rightfully bitch about bullshit political correctness all we want, but it's not going to make any difference if we shovel ammunition to our enemies.

For what it's worth.

You make so much sense, and I agree wholeheartedly.

Just Monday I was at a house getting some applications completed where the mother who was about 8 months pregnant and her two older sons were there to interpret. I tried to tell her the process would take about two months, but instead of saying months I said 'more' is Spanish because they both are similar sounding. One of the sons corrected me, to which I replied that I didn't really care I'm an American and I don't speak Spanish. He then told me I should because there are so many who do living here. I then told him that if I were to move to Mexico or Spain I would learn Spanish, but I don't plan on moving there.

I might also add that this family had both parents and were getting Medical, foodstamps and WIC. This doesn't include the $2,000 a month in education the taxpayers are paying already to educate the two they already had. If they couldn't get by with having two kids, why did they feel it was ok to have another.

How many people have you talked to who have said, we can't afford to have any more kids, and so they don't. That's what's called being responsible for your actions, and caring about what you do.

[Rim05]

I might also add that this family had both parents and were getting Medical, foodstamps and WIC. This doesn't include the $2,000 a month in education the taxpayers are paying already to educate the two they already had. If they couldn't get by with having two kids, why did they feel it was ok to have another.



Why do they need to do any thing except just get here. Just look at what they are getting for just being here and having 2 3/4 kids. No need to work. You did not mention housing assistance but I bet it is there.
Then the thing that always ruins Christmas for me are all the TOY drives and food donations. The lead based Chinese toys should not even be in this country, Give them a BOOK, and I don't mean a comic book. I believe in helping the needy, those who lost a job through no fault of their own, illness in the family, the home destroyed by fire.
All this free hand out merely makes them expect to get what ever they need or want FREE, all you have to do is collect a bunch of kids and stand in a line.
If I sound harsh blame it on the churches, Toys for Tots, The Fire Dept toy drive etc. I could go on and on. How long do those toys last and don't you know China is happy?
Have a Merry Christmas!

[usa today]

I just came back from the store , needed Coffee

In front of me were 2 different groups of latinas , Both had a hoard of anchors , neither spoke English and BOTH had WIC cards

This is sad

[ilbegone]

One of the sons corrected me, to which I replied that I didn't really care I'm an American and I don't speak Spanish. He then told me I should because there are so many who do living here.

On a job where I was staying in a motel, I approached the owners and asked for a couple of towels, as the used ones had been removed and not replaced. The husband walked to the laundry room and returned with a couple of towels. In the meantime, the wife got the maid and sent her to service my room. I declined, and the owner told the maid in Spanish to give me a couple of towels. I stated that I now had the towels i had needed, there is no problem and the room can wait.

The maid didn't understand a word of the English. However, the owner was from India, and speaks at least two languages not native to India - English and Spanish.

Not long ago, I worked with a Mexican who's been here for twenty years, the last ten working almost exclusively with English speakers: he's just now getting around to the idea that he needs to take some English as a second language classes. I asked Elena how this could be - at least he should have picked up more English through osmosis. Her reply was that for all those years he didn't want to.

[ilbegone]

One of the points I was trying to make is that not everyone is the same person.

If someone is here without entering permissively through a legal point of entry deport them, regardless of their country of origin.

However, if everyone who has a brown skin and a Spanish last name is dumped into the same bag with illegal welfare cheats and illegal job stealers as well as gang bangers and trash scatterers, I believe the anti illegal immigration cause is lost.

For what it's worth.

[Rim05]

However, if everyone who has a brown skin and a Spanish last name is dumped into the same bag with illegal welfare cheats and illegal job stealers as well as gang bangers and trash scatterers, I believe the anti illegal immigration cause is lost.



If they are ILLEGAL then they do belong in the same bag as all illegals no matter what the name or color.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

If they are ILLEGAL then they do belong in the same bag as all illegals no matter what the name or color.You're correct Rimo, but so many don't differentiate between someones legal status and their skin color. The La Raza crowd are very guilty of this, but so are many others on the opposite side. Each side exploits the errors of the other.

[usa today]

Well , when I came back here I am still the same person and will not mince PC words. If you don't like it , ban be

bottom line , you don't see the Irish, or Russians or Canadians to any large degree marching with their national flags demanding amnesty , special laws , special rules or anything else

All I see demanding these things are brown hispanics

Am I wrong here?

I see hispanics carrying mexican flags , not Irish carrying Irelands flag

I see hundreds of advocacy groups like la raza , maldef , mecha demanding rights for HISPANICS ,

On a personal level I see hundreds of spanish speakers using American benefits like food stamps , wic , and others on a daily basis

I live in a town that is spending multiple millions of dollars for dialysis care , post and pre natal and other medical services payed by taxpayer going to illegal aliens.

Maybe I'm just getting old and crochity by in my book this isn't right

Our military vets are getting screwed
our elderly are eating dog food
our schoos are a joke
our neighborhoods are turning into 3rd world slums
Time to call um as ya see um

If it doesn't measure up to the kumbyeya PC crowd , feel free to ban me
I have other homes.

[Twoller]

....

bottom line , you don't see the Irish, or Russians or Canadians to any large degree marching with their national flags demanding amnesty , special laws , special rules or anything else

....

You do see the Irish, the Russians and the Canadians making themselves comfortable as illegals just like the Mexicans. They assume the same atitudes too, they don't need to march around, they leave that to the Mexicans and anything the Mexicans get, they will get too.

Our illegal immigration problem is not a strictly Mexican problem.

... and the Indians, and the middle easterners -- Pakistani, Persian whatever you got, the Chinese. And if you look in other countries, the same problem has a completely different face. In England it is not just the Middle Eaterners, there are Poles, Lithuanians.

Anyplace you have a country that is not allowed, for some reason, to police against people being inside the country who have no permission to be there.

[Kathy63]

In England the problem isn't illegal immigration but immigration because the Poles and Lithuanians are there legally courtesy of European Union agreements.

The problem isn't illegal immigration. It's immigration. It is a failure to become Americans, failure to become English and in France it's legal immigrants' failure to become French.

[Twoller]

I wouldn't describe it as failure as much as it is lack of interest. Yes, it is an immigration problem. People are being allowed to immigrate for no good reason. And the problem is not just in the United States, it is an international problem.

[usa today]

the problem is that first world countries are run by liberals. If we stopped giving EVERYTHING to immigrants , both legal and illegal how many would still come?

Not many

[Jeanfromfillmore]

Well , when I came back here I am still the same person and will not mince PC words. If you don't like it , ban be

bottom line , you don't see the Irish, or Russians or Canadians to any large degree marching with their national flags demanding amnesty , special laws , special rules or anything else

All I see demanding these things are brown hispanics

Am I wrong here?

I see hispanics carrying mexican flags , not Irish carrying Irelands flag

I see hundreds of advocacy groups like la raza , maldef , mecha demanding rights for HISPANICS ,

On a personal level I see hundreds of spanish speakers using American benefits like food stamps , wic , and others on a daily basis

I live in a town that is spending multiple millions of dollars for dialysis care , post and pre natal and other medical services payed by taxpayer going to illegal aliens.

Maybe I'm just getting old and crochity by in my book this isn't right

Our military vets are getting screwed
our elderly are eating dog food
our schoos are a joke
our neighborhoods are turning into 3rd world slums
Time to call um as ya see um

If it doesn't measure up to the kumbyeya PC crowd , feel free to ban me
I have other homes.

Please stop implying that this organization will ban you at the drop of a hat. It is insulting. We have rules that we expect EVERYONE to comply with. But we don't ban associates, we have a restricted area for those that are not in compliance with our rules. Your confronting this organization that we would ban you and you're standing up to us, is unnecessary.

[usa today]

It is necessary

People do need to understand that there are still Americans that refuse to knuckle under to the feel good , kum bye ya liberal crowds

The old Sos was a strong force , they could have been one of the premier
anti illegal immigration forces in this country

Alipac could have been also

Pc killed what should be 2 huge national orgs

I still contend that until we recognize the true enemy and can speak about it , we will lose this battle.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

It is necessary

People do need to understand that there are still Americans that refuse to knuckle under to the feel good , kum bye ya liberal crowds

The old Sos was a strong force , they could have been one of the premier
anti illegal immigration forces in this country

Alipac could have been also

Pc killed what should be 2 huge national orgs

I still contend that until we recognize the true enemy and can speak about it , we will lose this battle.

No it's not necessary, not here, not now. We are not continuing the practice of banning those who disagree with others on a philosophical discussion. But it seems a bit confrontational to threaten that if you don't get your way that it has something to do with pc and as a result you can say anything you want and aren't afraid of being banned. Again, I will remind you we don't ban anyone at Saveourstate.info, we have a place where those that break the rules can still speak their mind. I don't feel it is fare to us that we should be confronted in such a way that implies we would ban associates at the drop of a hat, which is what you implied. We are not the enemy.

[ilbegone]

Well , when I came back here I am still the same person and will not mince PC words. If you don't like it , ban be

bottom line , you don't see the Irish, or Russians or Canadians to any large degree marching with their national flags demanding amnesty , special laws , special rules or anything else

All I see demanding these things are brown hispanics

Am I wrong here?

I see hispanics carrying mexican flags , not Irish carrying Irelands flag

I see hundreds of advocacy groups like la raza , maldef , mecha demanding rights for HISPANICS ,

On a personal level I see hundreds of spanish speakers using American benefits like food stamps , wic , and others on a daily basis

I live in a town that is spending multiple millions of dollars for dialysis care , post and pre natal and other medical services payed by taxpayer going to illegal aliens.

Maybe I'm just getting old and crochity by in my book this isn't right

Our military vets are getting screwed
our elderly are eating dog food
our schoos are a joke
our neighborhoods are turning into 3rd world slums
Time to call um as ya see um

If it doesn't measure up to the kumbyeya PC crowd , feel free to ban me
I have other homes.

I gave a "for what it's worth". You're free to digest my communication, free to not understand what I'm trying to say, and free to believe I'm an idiot.

It's ok.

I'll repackage it again.

If you have a white skin, does that make you a person who murders Jewish women and kids in "showers" with Cyclone B gas, and work able bodied Jewish men to death throwing their relative's bodies into ovens?

If you are a man living within 90 miles of San Francisco, does that mean you are homosexual?

If you ever agreed with one single thing Barbara Boxer ever said, does that make you a communist who needs to be stripped of citizenship?

Your neighbor regularly beats his wife and kids and tortures animals for kicks in a sound proof basement. Are you now an accomplice?

Someone stumbles onto you taking a leak in the bushes, does that make you a sex offender?

Your cousin has a moped and a Rat Fink tat on his thigh, does that turn you into one of the "Filthy Few"?

This might look Familiar:

Are you an aryan militia supremist?

If you are , you are against the health care bill

Do you even believe this freakin fruit loop


http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/w...are-birthers-/

"Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) today took shots at those who are not supporting the health care legislation. During a floor speech, he excoriated Senate GOP members for up holding the pending health care bill and accused their supporters of being birthers and fanatics in right-wing militia and Aryan support groups. He started off by citing an editorial from the Manchester Journal Inquirer, which used insults like "lunatic fringe.":
Reply With Quote

http://saveourstate.info/showthread.php?p=2779#post2779


Generally speaking, there is not a monolithic block of which all people with brown skins are "La Ratza, illegal alien, neighborhood destroying invader locust child molesting gang banging drug dealing welfare cheating cockroach perpetual drunkards who routinely pee in public and only speak Spanish."

Illegals and their first generation children either born or growing up in America are generally different people. [Edited in for clarification: derived from two cultures, and in many cases either rejected by or not belonging to either one]

The following generations have more differences.

In all groups, you have bigots, wastrels, leeches, thieves, presumptuous opportunists, and fairly decent people who are human, and some make more mistakes and have more misjudgments than others. Just like white Americans.

I believe that multi generational Mexican Americans are generally looked down on and disrespected by Mexicans, illegals beat Mexican Americans out of work just like they do white Americans.

I further believe that more Mexican Americans would be against illegal immigration if it didn't sound so much like white people want to deport them along with illegal Mexicans.

You have the free choice as to whether you want to give racist brown nationalists free ammunition to use against you.

For what it's worth.