True nature of alipac

[deportillegalsman]

I am a very passionate and patriotic supporter of all the Anti-Illegal Immigration groups...except one: alipac and William Gheen! I have supported many groups and have attended a couple of dozen rallies of various groups over the last 3 years. I recently tried to post comments on the alipac video of the patriots getting attacked by communist thugs in Ft. Lauderdale FL. I made no racist remarks, but I did post my views of how I believe many Americans are getting sick and tired of seeing Pro-Illegal Communist thugs attack people who are against Illegal Immigration, and eventually this anger is going to erupt into violence against these thugs. Every post I made was censored and deleted by alipac! I called alipac, and was treated very rudely by William Gheen. It was glaringly obvious to me that William gheen is a COMPLETE FAKE! He cares more about political correctness than actually fighting against the Illegal Alien Invasion. He obviously is a control freak and cares NOTHING of THE US CONSTITUTION or the 1st AMENDMENT! In my opinion, people like Gheen, who are supposed to be national leaders in this fight should be true believers in the US CONSTITUTION. To Me, anyone worried about political correctness is just as great an ENEMY to the American People and the US Constitution as the Illegals are. William Gheen is a complete fraud and should be exposed as such before he causes more damage. In my eyes, alipac and William Gheen have no credibility and are not a legitimate organization. I am not eloquent with my words, and I am no one important, but I am very passionate about saving our Country. I am guessing that William Gheen may have interests to run for a political office, where he could cause considerable damage. For me William Gheen has become ENEMY # 1. He pissed off the wrong ex-marine!

[Ayatollahgondola]

Well, I can see you're a passionate guy,

I'm not sure what political correctness means anymore, because that term gets used to describe a wider range of circumstances all the time, but whatever community you voice your opinions in are going to retain some element of control over the manner in which people express themselves. I'm not convinced Gheen is public enemy #1 given the likes of people that rape rob and kill our citizens or try to diminish or neuter our border defenses which in turn allows more foreign criminals and agents in that do the same or accomplish other nefarious tasks. But maybe you know something I do not, and we're always willing to listen, as long as it doesn't violate the rules here. Just a word of advice if you have a mind to take it:
I've always been a proponent of using terms and language that provide the best protections of my first amendment rights, and one is to always make it known that my statements are my opinions, unless they are proven or referenced facts. Something like this:
"I think William Gheen is a complete fraud and should be exposed as such before he causes more damage." Those two words preceeding your earlier statement could go a long ways in protecting your right to express your thoughts in just about any venue.
So, with that said, I'll welcome you to SOS, but do keep in mind our main purpose and agenda which are posted in the official section, and that Gheen still has many supporters within our midst who are also entitled to their opinions of him and ALIPAC for that matter, so we don't want to have our mission get totally sidetracked by arguments over intergroup rivalries. It wouldn't do to have our whole movement engulfed in disputes with each other while foreigners run amok within our perimeters.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

AG what are you doing up at this time of the morning? Am I having an influence on you?

[Rim05]

I was wondering the same thing about you Jean. :) However, if you see me here at 2 or 3 AM it is probably because I woke up and can't get back to sleep.

[Don]

Gheen is indeed a phoney and no friend of free speech.

Several years ago he was involved in some local political dispute and people were writing letters to the mayor, city council, etc. I dont' remember where it was, but I think it was in the East somewhere. Gheen comes out with a "Decree" that "white" racists are not to get involved in this campaign. (He's OK with black and brown racists, but not "white" ones.)

Who the hell is this guy to issue a "decree" to tell American citizens of whatever color whether or not they can write letters to government officials? He's very arrogant and thinks he's Napoleon or something. The upshot it that he's another coward and double talker who wants to relegate whites to a level of second class citizenship so that he can brag that he's not a "racist."

Look at the name of his group: Americans for Legal Immigration.

If he favors "legal" immigration, then why is he against amnesty. Anybody who supports "legal" immigration should also support amnesty because that way all immigration will be "legal."

How weirdly Orwellian that he takes positions completely incosistent with his group's stated purpose (i.e. promoting "legal" immigration." ) I asked this question on his web site and was promptly banned. Send in money contributions, just don't ask questions this phony can't answer.

[Ayatollahgondola]

Gheen is indeed a phoney and no friend of free speech.

Several years ago he was involved in some local political dispute and people were writing letters to the mayor, city council, etc. I dont' remember where it was, but I think it was in the East somewhere. Gheen comes out with a "Decree" that "white" racists are not to get involved in this campaign. (He's OK with black and brown racists, but not "white" ones.)

Who the hell is this guy to issue a "decree" to tell American citizens of whatever color whether or not they can write letters to government officials? He's very arrogant and thinks he's Napoleon or something. The upshot it that he's another coward and double talker who wants to relegate whites to a level of second class citizenship so that he can brag that he's not a "racist.".

I can't speak for his organization at all, and I don't know anything about the incidents you mentioned there, but we don't generally take sides in racial issues at all. Packing up by race is not something we support. We may point out racially discriminatory policies that affect our citizens, but trend away from supporting any specific race. There's quite a few different races amongst the body that makes our community

[deportillegalsman]

Ayatolla....your point is well taken. It is true, I am a wee bit opinionated lol.......but I truly do believe this guy (William Gheen) is very dangerous......may not seem so obvious, but just wait a few years....I would not be surprised if he is arrested or involved in some kind crime. I just wanted to warn people about "my opinion" of him! <-------hows that?

I am not usually involved in any politics, in fact I really don't care about the infighting of various groups. I'm not a member of ANY group...although I do know a couple of you! I just thought it was important to warn good people about a FAKE like Gheen!

[Borderwatch]

If what inappropriate to post this, I apologize

From: Jeff Schwilk <jeffschwilk@cox.net>
Subject: Patriot Warning: New "Save Our State" Group is a Fraud
To: Undisclosed-Recipient@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 7:26 PM

PLEASE FORWARD TO YOUR CA PATRIOT LISTS

Many Patriots in California received the below deceptive email this morning from independent activist Davi Rodrigues. Here are some facts you should know before you think about joining his new group which is now falsely using the SOS name.

Save Our State, the very successful activist group founded and owned by Joe Turner in 2005 shut down last month. The group had run its course. The website, SaveOurState.org also went off line.

A former member who went rogue earlier this year and was kicked out of SOS for his destructive behavior, Davi Rodrigues in Sacramento, has stolen the name of the group and is trying to say he is now in charge of SOS.

Davi has been on a personal Jihad against our popular candidate for governor, Chelene Nightingale since she announced her candidacy in July. Chelene left SOS in May to prepare for her campaign. His vicious attacks and lies against her are nothing short of treasonous. He may be working for La Raza or the GOP to smear her campaign "from the inside". He is urging his "followers" to attack and sabotage her campaign and bash her in internet forums and message boards. Warnings to him to cease and desist his vicious attacks have been ignored.

If you choose to join this group, just know that this is NOT Save Our State. It is a copy cat run by Davi and other outcasts from our mainstream movement. His group is NOT part of the www.SoCalPatriots.org - 25 united mainstream Patriot groups in SoCal.

Unfortunately, there are several leaders and personalities who have gone rogue (and not in the good Sarah Palin way) over the past few years and now spend much of their time attacking the successful mainstream groups and leaders. Whether out of jealousy or just bitterness and pettiness, they spread malicious, harmful lies and hate about good Patriots. We have created a webpage just to warn the public about these individuals. Please be very cautious when associating with these individuals who have a history of destructive behavior in our movement.
Patriot Warnings:
http://sandiegominutemen.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=127&Itemid=118

Beware of false and dangerous leaders in groups pretending to be part of our very successful secure borders movement. Most of them have their own selfish and money-making agendas.

- Jeff Schwilk, SDMM

[Ayatollahgondola]

It's not innapropriate. I thought it was already posted in the official section though

[Jeanfromfillmore]

Well there is one thing in that email from Schiwk that he didn't reveal. Joe took the SOS.org from someone else. Joe was not the original owner.

And I might add, that Joe walked away from the organization a long time ago. He was never very approachable even when he did show up. He had an idea of starting the organization at a time when people were starving for somewhere to vent their anger at this invasion and actively participate, especially after the illegals marched in our streets. But Joe abandoned us years ago. We, the members, invested our time and deserve to reap the goodwill we invested. To have the organization just dissolve, as Joe and Chelene would have preferred, would be a slap in the face to all who contributed their time and effort. We didn't drop the ball, those in charge did. And to cry foul now because we wouldn't stand down shows that they are more concerned with themselves than they ever were with the cause and those that stood up for it. We members are the ones who showed up and put forth the effort without the public clapping and singing our praises.
And no little bunch of groupies that can't seem to see beyond themselves are going to stop us or put us down.

[Eagle1]

Well there is one thing in that email from Schiwk that he didn't reveal. Joe took the SOS.org from someone else. Joe was not the original owner.

And I might add, that Joe walked away from the organization a long time ago. He was never very approachable even when he did show up. He had an idea of starting the organization at a time when people were starving for somewhere to vent their anger at this invasion and actively participate, especially after the illegals marched in our streets. But Joe abandoned us years ago. We, the members, invested our time and deserve to reap the goodwill we invested. To have the organization just dissolve, as Joe and Chelene would have preferred, would be a slap in the face to all who contributed their time and effort. We didn't drop the ball, those in charge did. And to cry foul now because we wouldn't stand down shows that they are more concerned with themselves than they ever were with the cause and those that stood up for it. We members are the ones who showed up and put forth the effort without the public clapping and singing our praises.
And no little bunch of groupies that can't seem to see beyond themselves are going to stop us or put us down.

AMEN! Well put Jean!

[wetibbe]

I am a very passionate and patriotic supporter of all the Anti-Illegal Immigration groups...except one: alipac and William Gheen! I have supported many groups and have attended a couple of dozen rallies of various groups over the last 3 years. I recently tried to post comments on the alipac video of the patriots getting attacked by communist thugs in Ft. Lauderdale FL. I made no racist remarks, but I did post my views of how I believe many Americans are getting sick and tired of seeing Pro-Illegal Communist thugs attack people who are against Illegal Immigration, and eventually this anger is going to erupt into violence against these thugs. Every post I made was censored and deleted by alipac! I called alipac, and was treated very rudely by William Gheen. It was glaringly obvious to me that William gheen is a COMPLETE FAKE! He cares more about political correctness than actually fighting against the Illegal Alien Invasion. He obviously is a control freak and cares NOTHING of THE US CONSTITUTION or the 1st AMENDMENT! In my opinion, people like Gheen, who are supposed to be national leaders in this fight should be true believers in the US CONSTITUTION. To Me, anyone worried about political correctness is just as great an ENEMY to the American People and the US Constitution as the Illegals are. William Gheen is a complete fraud and should be exposed as such before he causes more damage. In my eyes, alipac and William Gheen have no credibility and are not a legitimate organization. I am not eloquent with my words, and I am no one important, but I am very passionate about saving our Country. I am guessing that William Gheen may have interests to run for a political office, where he could cause considerable damage. For me William Gheen has become ENEMY # 1. He pissed off the wrong ex-marine!

As an observer of the board rules here which I agreed to I will refrain from certain comments.

However, from my experience you are SPOT ON with your observations and opinions. Without going into the details I had similar experiences.

The attack on Jim Gilchrist which was brutal, slanderous and defamatory turned me off completely. I concluded that we were dealing with a Napoleonic alpha male megalomaniac. I found it the pinnacle of sanctimonious hypocrisy that "he" would ban posters for violating his own house rules on his own website but he had no compunctions about going on other peoples websites and using it not only to lambaste Gilchrist but actually try to recruit the members from other sites to join a lynch mob.

As regards your comments about - it's all about money - I made similar observations on another website a couple of years ago. Posters move around and some reported it back to Alipac. I simply brought up the subject of accountability and transparency after the Minuteman debacle wherein Simcox's cabal plundered 85% of the contributions and pocketed it, building a phony, fake fence. Back then Alipac introduced a $25 initiation fee for becoming a member, which has since been revoked. The only website I ever heard of that assessed such a fee..

[wetibbe]

Gheen is indeed a phoney and no friend of free speech.

Several years ago he was involved in some local political dispute and people were writing letters to the mayor, city council, etc. I dont' remember where it was, but I think it was in the East somewhere. Gheen comes out with a "Decree" that "white" racists are not to get involved in this campaign. (He's OK with black and brown racists, but not "white" ones.)

Who the hell is this guy to issue a "decree" to tell American citizens of whatever color whether or not they can write letters to government officials? He's very arrogant and thinks he's Napoleon or something. The upshot it that he's another coward and double talker who wants to relegate whites to a level of second class citizenship so that he can brag that he's not a "racist."

Look at the name of his group: Americans for Legal Immigration.

If he favors "legal" immigration, then why is he against amnesty. Anybody who supports "legal" immigration should also support amnesty because that way all immigration will be "legal."

How weirdly Orwellian that he takes positions completely incosistent with his group's stated purpose (i.e. promoting "legal" immigration." ) I asked this question on his web site and was promptly banned. Send in money contributions, just don't ask questions this phony can't answer.

My observation also about money! I quite agree. Prolific solicitations and "goals". Among other things I simply asked how members, supporters, contributors could know that even ONE fax had ever been sent in view, at the time, the Minuteman shell game/hand in the cookie jar was occuring and being exposed.

I suspect that there are many who are disenchanted but haven't spoken out.

[LAPhil]

If what inappropriate to post this, I apologize

From: Jeff Schwilk <jeffschwilk@cox.net>
Subject: Patriot Warning: New "Save Our State" Group is a Fraud
To: Undisclosed-Recipient@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 7:26 PM

PLEASE FORWARD TO YOUR CA PATRIOT LISTS

Many Patriots in California received the below deceptive email this morning from independent activist Davi Rodrigues. Here are some facts you should know before you think about joining his new group which is now falsely using the SOS name.

Save Our State, the very successful activist group founded and owned by Joe Turner in 2005 shut down last month. The group had run its course. The website, SaveOurState.org also went off line.

A former member who went rogue earlier this year and was kicked out of SOS for his destructive behavior, Davi Rodrigues in Sacramento, has stolen the name of the group and is trying to say he is now in charge of SOS.

Davi has been on a personal Jihad against our popular candidate for governor, Chelene Nightingale since she announced her candidacy in July. Chelene left SOS in May to prepare for her campaign. His vicious attacks and lies against her are nothing short of treasonous. He may be working for La Raza or the GOP to smear her campaign "from the inside". He is urging his "followers" to attack and sabotage her campaign and bash her in internet forums and message boards. Warnings to him to cease and desist his vicious attacks have been ignored.

If you choose to join this group, just know that this is NOT Save Our State. It is a copy cat run by Davi and other outcasts from our mainstream movement. His group is NOT part of the www.SoCalPatriots.org - 25 united mainstream Patriot groups in SoCal.

Unfortunately, there are several leaders and personalities who have gone rogue (and not in the good Sarah Palin way) over the past few years and now spend much of their time attacking the successful mainstream groups and leaders. Whether out of jealousy or just bitterness and pettiness, they spread malicious, harmful lies and hate about good Patriots. We have created a webpage just to warn the public about these individuals. Please be very cautious when associating with these individuals who have a history of destructive behavior in our movement.
Patriot Warnings:
http://sandiegominutemen.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=127&Itemid=118

Beware of false and dangerous leaders in groups pretending to be part of our very successful secure borders movement. Most of them have their own selfish and money-making agendas.

- Jeff Schwilk, SDMM
I think Schwilk should mind his own business. He's never belonged to either SOS organization, and if he thinks all of the members of the new SOS are rogues and troublemakers then he definitely needs a reality check. I'm getting a little tired of these generalizations about how one anti-illegal immigration group is the real thing and everyone else is a traitor or a pretender. At any rate, Schwilk is clearly in no position to judge.

[JB_Parrothead]

All of this infighting, back biting, finger pointing and PUBLIC accusations against leaders in this fight against illegal immigration just really needs to STOP! It's unbecoming of this organization and to others here who are trying to stay focused on the problems of illegal immigration instead of wasting time and effort reading about all of the "he said, she said," juicy gossip that rears its ugly head in EVERY ORGANIZATION. Just quit playing into it! Those who choose to do this are playing right into the hands of La Raza and the open borders crowd! They (La Raza) come here and read this crap and they're wallowing with delight in it....BET ON IT!!

Air your accusations privately, straight to the person you're having a problem with and privately to persons you feel you need to warn, but don't use a public venue to air your dirty laundry. WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME TEAM and/or else trying to be! Personality clashes are small change up against what we are ALL fighting for. If you feel a person or organization doesn't follow the kind of protocol you agree with, go to the source, discuss it maturely and if it can't be solved to your expectations, then leave. Find another place/position to fight from, but remember....we're all here for the same thing....to fight illegal immigration! When one amongst us starts slinging mud, it makes us all look dirty!

Just because Jeff Schwilk chooses to weaken the cause by putting stuff like that memo out there, doesn't mean we should all follow suit. STICK WITH THE AGENDA, keep your focus on the issue. It's not about race or who's a better leader or who within the ranks are frauds! It's about pulling together to pull this country back from the brink of certain death if it is allowed to continue on this nose dive straight down to hell.

William Gheen is out there, putting his money where his mouth is. He is facing the opponent straight on and is not hiding his face or his identity. He has experience in the political arena and I applaude his efforts at trying to unite all Americans against illegal immigration into one huge entity. It's not easy. I believe he truly does believe in free speech, our Constitution and that he loves this country, American culture and his fellow citizens. He is trying to run a legitimate, professional organization and there are some guidelines one has to follow to keep up those appearances and for the organization to have some integrity. He can't allow that to be jeapordized by allowing everyone carte blanche in venting their gut emotions openly on a public venue.

No one liked it when Nancy Pelosi did that...calling the American grass roots Tea Parties against her policies, "Astro Turf." It made her and the other Democrats in her arena look pretty unprofessional and petty. No one can ever take her seriously again. She lost a lot of credibility with just those few words sputtered into a reporter's microphone.

It's William's venue, he pays for it, he maintains it and you must remember he has the right to regulate it as he sees fit. Just like if you come into my home...I'm the boss here, no matter what and you will play by my rules while you're under my roof....period. Same things go for websites.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

All of this infighting, back biting, finger pointing and PUBLIC accusations against leaders in this fight against illegal immigration just really needs to STOP! It's unbecoming of this organization and to others here who are trying to stay focused on the problems of illegal immigration instead of wasting time and effort reading about all of the "he said, she said," juicy gossip that rears its ugly head in EVERY ORGANIZATION. Just quit playing into it! Those who choose to do this are playing right into the hands of La Raza and the open borders crowd! They (La Raza) come here and read this crap and they're wallowing with delight in it....BET ON IT!!

Air your accusations privately, straight to the person you're having a problem with and privately to persons you feel you need to warn, but don't use a public venue to air your dirty laundry. WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME TEAM and/or else trying to be! Personality clashes are small change up against what we are ALL fighting for. If you feel a person or organization doesn't follow the kind of protocol you agree with, go to the source, discuss it maturely and if it can't be solved to your expectations, then leave. Find another place/position to fight from, but remember....we're all here for the same thing....to fight illegal immigration! When one amongst us starts slinging mud, it makes us all look dirty!

Just because Jeff Schwilk chooses to weaken the cause by putting stuff like that memo out there, doesn't mean we should all follow suit. STICK WITH THE AGENDA, keep your focus on the issue. It's not about race or who's a better leader or who within the ranks are frauds! It's about pulling together to pull this country back from the brink of certain death if it is allowed to continue on this nose dive straight down to hell.

William Gheen is out there, putting his money where his mouth is. He is facing the opponent straight on and is not hiding his face or his identity. He has experience in the political arena and I applaude his efforts at trying to unite all Americans against illegal immigration into one huge entity. It's not easy. I believe he truly does believe in free speech, our Constitution and that he loves this country, American culture and his fellow citizens. He is trying to run a legitimate, professional organization and there are some guidelines one has to follow to keep up those appearances and for the organization to have some integrity. He can't allow that to be jeapordized by allowing everyone carte blanche in venting their gut emotions openly on a public venue.

No one liked it when Nancy Pelosi did that...calling the American grass roots Tea Parties against her policies, "Astro Turf." It made her and the other Democrats in her arena look pretty unprofessional and petty. No one can ever take her seriously again. She lost a lot of credibility with just those few words sputtered into a reporter's microphone.

It's William's venue, he pays for it, he maintains it and you must remember he has the right to regulate it as he sees fit. Just like if you come into my home...I'm the boss here, no matter what and you will play by my rules while you're under my roof....period. Same things go for websites.

I just love you. Thank you. Everyone read what was written here and take it to heart. We have a big battle coming just ahead of us. That is where our energy should be focused. All the other Anti-illegal organizations are not our enemy, the open borders/pro-amnesty groups ARE. So some of you had problems with some others in the past. It's the past, and please get over it and let's move on. This is the direction we want our new SOS to go. We're working on this.

[LAPhil]

JB, believe me, I couldn't agree with you more. I've been saying the same thing over and over again on this forum since the beginning, but it's like people would rather just keep on with the infighting and airing dirty laundry. There's a forum on another site where practically every post is a bashing of Chelene. I was always friends with Chelene and I refuse to participate in that or bashing any of the other popular targets here. Apparently a lot of people are holding some pretty strong grudges, but since I don't share their personal experiences I can't really judge them because I might be just as resentful if I were in their position. The only reason I bad-mouthed Schwilk is because he was doing exactly the thing I want stopped, just as you do. So far you're the first person to share my sentiments on this.

[JB_Parrothead]

What I would really like to see is all of these leaders in separate anti-illegal immigration organizations come together in a meeting of the minds and join all of these anti-illegal immigration organizations together under ONE BANNER with a BOARD OF DIRECTORS comprised of a member from each organization.

As serious as we all are about fighting illegal immigration from a political front, we really need to go from this:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/JB_Parrothead/Pics%20For%20SOS/join_or_die.gif

To THIS:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/JB_Parrothead/Pics%20For%20SOS/gadsden.jpg

[LAPhil]

[COLOR="Blue"]What I would really like to see is all of these leaders in separate anti-illegal immigration organizations come together in a meeting of the minds and join all of these anti-illegal immigration organizations together under ONE BANNER with a BOARD OF DIRECTORS comprised of a member from each organization.

Right on! I don't know why it has to be so difficult to stop all this bickering. We hate them, they hate us, blah, blah, blah. Are we going to keep this up forever? At some point I think the aggrieved parties in all this should be able to air out their differences, face-to-face if necessary. Isn't saving the country more important than all this petty crap?

[Jeanfromfillmore]

Right on! I don't know why it has to be so difficult to stop all this bickering. We hate them, they hate us, blah, blah, blah. Are we going to keep this up forever? At some point I think the aggrieved parties in all this should be able to air out their differences, face-to-face if necessary. Isn't saving the country more important than all this petty crap?Amen! Like I said, we have something in the works.

[Ayatollahgondola]

Here's my thoughts on this:

When you have a displaced majority of this size looking to reorganize for a few common causes, you are bound to have disagreements among them. In addition, you have this ripe brew of awakened spirits and revolting citizenry looking for a catalyst that will transform it to the next level. The problem has been here that the catalyst that moves in is all too often one that seeks to turn the host into something that services the desires of the catalyst, or the sorcerer as it were. The last example of this was Arnold. We had all this simmering anger over democrat governing, the energy price crisis, licenses for illegals, etc. Along came the opportunists and inserted their catalyst to mold the brew into their own image. We didn't get licenses for illegals, but they been gettin' everything else but that on his watch. During the period prior to the election, all these republicans were telling their skeptics that they all had to back Arnie (not McLintock), and not slam him for unity, lest they get another dem that would be much, much, worse. Our silence gave us what? Arnie is beholden to the open borders lobby. He's deliberately failed us on everything but the license issue. Things may have gone differently had we publicly raised our hands and asked questions, voiced opposition, and even brought forth the fears we harbored about his candidacy.
So here we have our movement in the same predicament. We've got Nightingales, Simcox's, Gilchrists, Gheen's, Dobbs's, and so on as prospective catalysts. Is it so wrong to flesh out the truths under public scrutiny so we don't get another Arnie? Personally I'm more afraid of people who fear open discussion and disclosure so much that they would threaten, browbeat, deride, or cast out those insisting on it. If they can't survive a little internal fire, they won't do well against the external forces.

[Twoller]

Here's my thoughts on this:

When you have a displaced majority of this size looking to reorganize for a few common causes, you are bound to have disagreements among them. In addition, you have this ripe brew of awakened spirits and revolting citizenry looking for a catalyst that will transform it to the next level. The problem has been here that the catalyst that moves in is all too often one that seeks to turn the host into something that services the desires of the catalyst, or the sorcerer as it were. The last example of this was Arnold. We had all this simmering anger over democrat governing, the energy price crisis, licenses for illegals, etc. Along came the opportunists and inserted their catalyst to mold the brew into their own image. We didn't get licenses for illegals, but they been gettin' everything else but that on his watch. During the period prior to the election, all these republicans were telling their skeptics that they all had to back Arnie (not McLintock), and not slam him for unity, lest they get another dem that would be much, much, worse. Our silence gave us what? Arnie is beholden to the open borders lobby. He's deliberately failed us on everything but the license issue. Things may have gone differently had we publicly raised our hands and asked questions, voiced opposition, and even brought forth the fears we harbored about his candidacy.

So here we have our movement in the same predicament. We've got Nightingales, Simcox's, Gilchrists, Gheen's, Dobbs's, and so on as prospective catalysts. Is it so wrong to flesh out the truths under public scrutiny so we don't get another Arnie? Personally I'm more afraid of people who fear open discussion and disclosure so much that they would threaten, browbeat, deride, or cast out those insisting on it. If they can't survive a little internal fire, they won't do well against the external forces.

The Ah-nold governership is a perfect example, and really, how could people be so foolish? Here was a man who could barely speak English himself, a Catholic married to a Kennedy. Was this guy put in to resist illegal immigration? How could anyone imagine he was? Here was a guy who repeatedly voiced frustration over being inelligible for the Presidency. Here was a guy who has dual citizenship with his country of origin, Austria, and frequently dabbled in the politics there.

This is all a powerful indicator that the struggle against illegal immigration is already seriously compromised by an installation carefully calculated to deflect progress towards real, practical, pragmatic solutions that cut directly to the heart of the problem. What could be more stupid than putting an immigrant in charge of confronting the illegal immigration problem?

Stupid or calculating? And of course, ignorance is always more easy to confront than conspiracy. Silencing discussion is the basic reflex of conspirators. The embarrassment of ignorance always makes a weaker demand for silence.

[LAPhil]

What could be more stupid than putting an immigrant in charge of confronting the illegal immigration problem?

That's way too much of a generalization. I think Eagle1 might have a different opinion.

[JB_Parrothead]

I watched Schwarzenegger very closely when he entered the governorship of California. I really believe he walked into this position with the same naivete that Palin walked into the Presidential campaign.

I truly think he had a Pollyanna view of politics and believed that he really didn't have to answer to anyone else but his own conscience....that he was his own man, beholden to no one. He used his own money to campaign and he started out with the right attitude but as he became surrounded by people like Antonio Villaraigosa and Fabian Nunez, his stance and rhetoric on illegal immigration began to morph into something unrecognizable. Those two parasites were always hanging on him like remoras on a shark every where he went. It was sickening. I believe they influenced him (more like brainwashed him) heavily.

He started out saying illegals needed to do things the right way, come here legally like he did, educate themselves like he did and learn how to speak English like he did, etc. He was spot on, but after the Mexican version of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum firmly attached their lips to his a$$...well, that's when he started to gradually change his stance on illegal immigration. He started out making some RINOS very uncomfortable by being so blunt with the truth about illegal aliens. They were afraid of losing the "Latino vote," which is code word for illegal alien votes.

Then I noticed something in particular pushed him over the edge and suddenly, actually very abruptly, his entire point of view about illegal immigration did a 180. After he was on TV on Telemundo programming saying illegals needed to quit watching Spanish language TV and start trying harder to assimilate, he got into that that little "wreck" caused by another car while riding his motorcycle with his son.

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/01/09/arnold-inside.jpg

After that little mishap, he changed his stance forever. I believe that mishap was either an intentional warning from La Raza or the RINOS for him to "cool it or else."

He hasn't turned back since. He was finally caught up in their web and I believe the same thing has happened to Dobbs. Remember...he and his family has been shot at and their lives and well being have been verbally threatened.