Shawna Forde trial

[Mikell]

Closings completed in border group leader’s trial

The Associated Press

Thursday, Feb. 10, 2011 | 11:10 a.m.

Attorneys finished closing arguments Thursday in the murder case against an anti-illegal immigrant group leader who is accused of gunning down a 9-year-old girl and her father in what prosecutors say was an attempt to steal drug money to fund border operations.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/feb/10/us-border-activist-trial/

[Layne]

Let's get some things straight: Forde was never accused of carrying a gun or of killing anyone. She is charged with being the "mastermind" of this heinous plot. People who know her say there is no way she could plan this sort of thing. She's not evil, and she simply doesn't have it in her to do it.

The MSM has not told you the truth. They have presented the trial as if it were a fait accompli, and case closed. The fact is, all the witnesses were shaky, including the eyewitness survivor, the widow of the drug dealer who was killed. She still cannot ID Shawna with any degree of certainty, and she denies knowing her husband was a drug dealer! WTF? The prosecution has not met their burden of proof "beyond a reasonable doubt," period. As Shawna's attorney says, in order to convict Shawna, you'd have to believe that the prosecution's explanation of what was presented is the ONLY ONE. A "reasonable and prudent person" could not buy that. We've got some updates on the website, and more coming. Take a look and see the truth: http://justiceforshawnaforde.com The prosecution's case is a train wreck, but they are still trying to railroad Shawna Forde.

[REWHBLCAIN]

Black eye on the movement.

[Eagle1]

The Shawna Forde trial and verdict becomes a milestone in the chronicles of the illegal alien invasion of the USA brought about by a slothful, untrustworthy, treasonous government that has turned a blind eye to the murder of sixty thousand Americans by illegal aliens while it goes after Arizona's SB1070 effort to protect its citizenry.

It is probable that Shawna Forde wouldn't be in the uncomfortable position of facing the death penalty and that a little girl and her father would today be alive if the Federal and state governments had taken their duties seriously and had deported every illegal alien out of this country.

Instead we find that our tax dollars are being given to radical pro-illegal immigration groups like the National Council of La Raza and CASA DE Maryland.

The result of the governments unforgivable position has yielded the high profile murders of Arizona rancher Robert Krentz, Border Patrol Agent Terry Brian and many others of late.

The entities that have been responsible for an American holocaust (60,000+ Americans killed by illegals) of epic proportions, The President of the United States, The US Senate and House as well as many state government agencies will never be charged in any court of law as the death count climbs ever higher. They will remain untouched as the little people are murdered and in cases like Forde's charged for the murder of people though it has been established that she shot no one.

Forde is seen as expendable both by the establishment and by the very Minutemen who wish to distance themselves from her so as not to be "defiled" by association. Emails have already been sent by those who wish to distance themselves and who had from the beginning declared her guilty before any trial had taken place.

In one email it is stated that she was never a Minuteman.
I would dispute that statement. A number of folks that I know and whom I have spoken with met Shawna Forde on the border functioning as a Minuteman, conducting border watches and informing the public.

If anything Forde's situation should serve others as a warning of how things can spin out of control and how good intentions can go terribly wrong.

The other clear result emanating from the Forde dilemma is that of seeing that there are traitors, flakes and liars in this movement forged to protect our homes and country.

So many folks criticizing Shawna Forde are obscenely and without restraint dancing like savages on the grave of a woman whose life went terribly wrong.

Where is there compassion for Shawna Forde? Where is the decency of those so blatantly pointing a finger at the damned and scorned woman that has no future as of today?

We must understand that some of these patriots are as cold and heartless as anyone capable of taking a life. It is just that their methods are different.

My heart goes out to Shawna Forde. A woman alone in a cell. A woman whose life went terribly wrong and who found during her last hours of freedom that the movement that she was a part of gave her no comfort, condemned her before her trial, abandoned her and denied her dignity and humanity. What will these same people say if she is executed? Don't rejoice...at least not in front of me. :(:(:(

[Don]

I know nothing of the facts or the personalities of this event. I do know that the US justice system is so corrupt that almost anyone can be convicted of almost anything. I have no confidence in the findings of this court. This woman was demonized before any proceedings even commenced.

Of course other Minutemen and other "Americans" could not distance themselves from her fast enough because they're terrified that some minority is going to call them a "racist."

[Jeanfromfillmore]

What happened to those that were killed was horrible. But when you compare that to what the drug cartels have done and continue to do, it is a drop in the bucket. The drug cartels are basically Hispanic, mostly Mexican citizens. So homogenous there's no question of who is doing it. But the media reports the cartels as some strange creatures that are foreign to Hispanics or Mexicans and does their best to distance them from their original origins, and to point out that they are who they are is considered racist. No, it's not racist, it's pointing out the truth, and a fact that even the media can't change.

[Bear Flag Republican]

I want to write to this woman. She deserves to have people show support for her through her time in jail. Even if she HAD pulled the trigger, which was never alleged, she would have been in the right.

This is an invasion.
You don't win a war by lying down and being loving.

[Ayatollahgondola]

I want to write to this woman. She deserves to have people show support for her through her time in jail. Even if she HAD pulled the trigger, which was never alleged, she would have been in the right.

This is an invasion.
You don't win a war by lying down and being loving.

We don't have a declared war, so this is still just your average crime. Well; maybe unaverage crime. Orchestrating a home invasion, or just participating in one is still a crime, and that your sloppy, careless planning resulted in the death of a kid is not really something that can be supported because your overall goal was just. I condemned the assault at WACO by ATF much on the same grounds, as did I in a case in Modesto where a 12 year old was shot to death accidently during a raid by narcotics officers with assault teams. A smart and considerate planner would have timed their assaults so as to protect the innocent. In Modesto, the cops were watching the house for months, and should have busted the place after sending free tickets to a movie for 12 and under to that address good on that night only. Yes; that's a simplistic suggestion for me to make from afar, but these are supposed to be educated, intelligent, evidence gathering agents, so I'm quite convinced that they could have orchestrated something better than "hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle", on the night of the raid. That goes double for Janet Reno's crew.
Shawna Ford was an idiot though. Maybe she had some altruistic goals, but who of us does not when it comes to protecting our country? What she had in spirit, she lacked ten fold in training, support, intelligence, and of course, authorization. Without that last one, you are just a rogue mercenary if you cling to the claim of freedom fighter, and a murderous criminal if your goals are anything else. I shudder to think of what passed for planning in this event. A pair of binoculars and word of mouth probably, and when you examine the quality of her peers in that caper, there's no wonder that the raid turned out so horribly. It's hard to justify by using any measure. We certainly cannot accept one death of an innocent 12 year old per each drug dealer or even two, as reasonably necessary to stop crime. We'd be condemned by every other country with the exception of a few.
I'd have had a lot more respect for what she did if she had first either declared war on this family, or at least garnered support for her effort within the larger audience of people within the movement. What real good comes from one or more roving bands of self declared freedom fighters if they are directed solely by their own desires? Sure we want the border secured, crime stopped, our country protected. But we need to do so using popular sentiment. We're not going to gain that using people like her, employing tactics like hers.

[Bear Flag Republican]

We don't have a declared war, so this is still just your average crime.

It's been declared, the war is just not recognized by governmental organizations. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's right to do what was done.
BUT ... a paramilitary organization that had a lot of recruits, formed of radical civillians who cared about the issues, once there IS something that pisses off the masses too much for our governments to ignore, could be very effective, moreso than the regular military. The recent history in the Balkans shows that.


check out this serbian football team. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOAz_IOmNgk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkan%27s_Tigers

[Bear Flag Republican]

And that said, I still want to write to her.
It's lonely in jail, and for all we know, she's another victim of the system.
Indeed, I have a friend who knows more than I do, and from what he's told me she told him in some panicked phonecall prior to her arrest, I would say, I want to write to her.
That's that.

The incidents that occured were not morally justified, but neither is scapegoating a woman as a "mastermind" in order to convince women not to join our struggle, which is, I believe, their machiavellian aspiration.

We need to define our own paradigm:
We don't shun people for going to jail.

[Ayatollahgondola]

BUT ... a paramilitary organization that had a lot of recruits, formed of radical civillians who cared about the issues, once there IS something that pisses off the masses too much for our governments to ignore, could be very effective, moreso than the regular military. The recent history in the Balkans shows that.

Well, that's what I meant by getting some support from your peers. She and her gang acted pretty much alone...without any authorization. A popular uprising differs from a small gang acting alone and unto themselves

[Bear Flag Republican]

Well, that's what I meant by getting some support from your peers. She and her gang acted pretty much alone...without any authorization. A popular uprising differs from a small gang acting alone and unto themselves

During the border campaign, the Official IRA splintered from the regulars with only ten members from the Original group which had won Independence.
There IS a military history parallel for that kind of thing. However ... it's one of those facts, you're not a rebel until you learn how to evade capture. A criminal is a bad boy who likes to get caught, a political rebel is an effective soldier who refuses to.

[ilbegone]

... Even if she HAD pulled the trigger, which was never alleged, she would have been in the right...

How would she have been in the right by being the shooter?

[Bear Flag Republican]

How would she have been in the right by being the shooter?

Do you acknowledge that there is an unseen war which costs Americans their lives on a regular basis, and our government is not acknowledging it as such?

[Ayatollahgondola]

Do you acknowledge that there is an unseen war which costs Americans their lives on a regular basis, and our government is not acknowledging it as such?

It's not unseen; maybe it's unreported though. The goal of security will not be won with emissaries like her and her associates. They did a half-assed, botched, and completely useless job. I'd challenge you to show me where she did something good here. Everyone wants something done about securing the border, and we'd all like to do something effective; however, when you pull out all the stops, you usually give your opposition more political ammunition to condemn you in the larger audience. People around us have been at this for decades. They've learned that charging in like a raging bull doesn't work. Winning over the public and encouraging them to support a war on the likes of mexico and their regional government proponents will not happen using Forde's tactics, and certainly not with those results.

[Bear Flag Republican]

It's not unseen; maybe it's unreported though. The goal of security will not be won with emissaries like her and her associates. They did a half-assed, botched, and completely useless job. I'd challenge you to show me where she did something good here. Everyone wants something done about securing the border, and we'd all like to do something effective; however, when you pull out all the stops, you usually give your opposition more political ammunition to condemn you in the larger audience. People around us have been at this for decades. They've learned that charging in like a raging bull doesn't work. Winning over the public and encouraging them to support a war on the likes of mexico and their regional government proponents will not happen using Forde's tactics, and certainly not with those results.


100% agreed.
We have to fight to win, and unfortunately, you can't fight fair with dirty fighters. I just want to clarify the difference between moral right, which may have existed, according to someone I know who interviewed her, and legal or tactical right, which well, the absence is self-evident. unfortunately, it's a very big difference.

[ilbegone]

Do you acknowledge that there is an unseen war which costs Americans their lives on a regular basis, and our government is not acknowledging it as such?

Do you believe it would be right that your family be purposefully murdered in a callous home invasion robbery by people masquerading as police and operating on false assumptions?

Additionally, how much does such a crime give false advertisement to the anti illegal immigration movement?

[Bear Flag Republican]

Do you believe it would be right that your family be purposefully murdered in a callous home invasion robbery by people masquerading as police and operating on false assumptions?

Additionally, how much does such a crime give false advertisement to the anti illegal immigration movement?

The issue is media slant. Like it or not, people in our movement who break the law for it, are still part of it. BUT ... funny how the media emphasizes and gloats over it, and yet minimizes the millions of crimes a year by illegals with a clear political agenda. Red stars have become a prominent hispanic criminal tattoo moreso than before in the past few years, usually combined with aztec art. I dated a half-german half chicano girl who lived on the border of East La on and off for 2 years, I'm not unfamilliar with the "street reality" because I can't avoid seeing it at times. I'm poor, young, and have had to rely on public transport and still do when convenient. I don't have to read an article or see a published excerpt from a police report to know the current attitudes of the hispanic criminals. I just read the pictograms on their arms and necks and legs and faces. Mayans and Aztecs still communicate with well painted stories, they're just not done on walls as much anymore. And the war drums are beating a little louder in the past few years.

[ilbegone]

The media is biased and they do have a political agenda which defies logic, no doubt about it. There's not much we can do about that.

On the other hand, Shawna had jewelry in her possession which belonged to the survivor when she was apprehended. She may not have been the shooter, but she was a part of it. Being a part of it makes her just as guilty as the shooter. And, like it or not, her high profile in the anti illegal alien movement is a black eye on the movement itself.

As for the woman you dated, you describe her as "half Chicano and half German". I view the woman as an American, because racial ancestry does not define nationality, language, culture, religion, or political persuasion.

To describe one as a "Chicano" is to infer that person has a particular racial view and a certain political outlook. As well, there are Mexican nationals who would hate her for her relative lack of "Mexican-ness" as much as a few at this site who continually confuse American citizens of Latin American ancestry with illegal aliens who do need to be deported.

As for the assertion that Meso American Indians who have been dead for five hundred years are "still communicating", you have no farther to look than the elementary schools' curriculum in southern California to find the reason, as well as the racial nonsense pushed in college that what is intolerable racism in white people is somehow an expression of "cultural pride" in "minorities". The brain washing all filters down to brown skinned, tattooed criminal assholes who may have been born in another country or whose family has been American for over a hundred years.

I believe the "Aztec" art referred to mostly originated north of the border since the middle 60's and was originally kicked off by "University Mexicans".

I myself am no stranger to the myriad types and various attitudes of those of the "brown persuasion", at least enough to know "they" are not all the same identical person.

[Bear Flag Republican]

The media is biased and they do have a political agenda which defies logic, no doubt about it. There's not much we can do about that.

On the other hand, Shawna had jewelry in her possession which belonged to the survivor when she was apprehended. She may not have been the shooter, but she was a part of it. Being a part of it makes her just as guilty as the shooter. And, like it or not, her high profile in the anti illegal alien movement is a black eye on the movement itself.

Good people can be motivated to do evil things when they are convinced that by comparison to the evil they are fighting, they are morally right.
Jail is lonely. She deserves letters. She's in there for a reason, sure. But she deserves letters.


As for the woman you dated, you describe her as "half Chicano and half German". I view the woman as an American, because racial ancestry does not define nationality, language, culture, religion, or political persuasion.

To describe one as a "Chicano" is to infer that person has a particular racial view and a certain political outlook. As well, there are Mexican nationals who would hate her for her relative lack of "Mexican-ness" as much as a few at this site who continually confuse American citizens of Latin American ancestry with illegal aliens who do need to be deported.


<<< yes, you're correct. technically, she's a Californita ;) Her family owned a ranch across the county line years ago. She's spanish colonial, not mexican. Chicana was an incorrect term but was used for convenience's sake.
Actually, she got a lot of hate for that, that's why she only dates whiteboys. Nevermind that she's ... more white than indian, and her mom is from EUROPE, not mexico. We used to get dirty looks all the time from mestizos. Racist pricks


As for the assertion that Meso American Indians who have been dead for five hundred years are "still communicating", you have no farther to look than the elementary schools' curriculum in southern California to find the reason, as well as the racial nonsense pushed in college that what is intolerable racism in white people is somehow an expression of "cultural pride" in "minorities". The brain washing all filters down to brown skinned, tattooed criminal assholes who may have been born in another country or whose family has been American for over a hundred years.

I believe the "Aztec" art referred to mostly originated north of the border since the middle 60's and was originally kicked off by "University Mexicans".

>>>>>I wasn't being literal. I was making a point. If you read the tattoos you can see their story, affiliation, beliefs, and often hometown. And the Red Star is a common tattoo.

I myself am no stranger to the myriad types and various attitudes of those of the "brown persuasion", at least enough to know "they" are not all the same identical person.
Brown persuasion?
well first off she was more offwhite tan-ish, liken a sicilian, than brown, second, is that like a church or something?
Do you go sign up, "yes, I'd like to convert from the white to the brown persuasion. I hear there's better food at your coffee brunch." ?

[ilbegone]

Good people can be motivated to do evil things when they are convinced that by comparison to the evil they are fighting, they are morally right.
Jail is lonely. She deserves letters. She's in there for a reason, sure. But she deserves letters.

Forde deserves letters like Charlie Manson deserves a cell phone.

Brown persuasion?
well first off she was more offwhite tan-ish, liken a sicilian, than brown, second, is that like a church or something?
Do you go sign up, "yes, I'd like to convert from the white to the brown persuasion. I hear there's better food at your coffee brunch." ?

I wasn't talking about your old girlfriend. It's a euphemism something like "someone of the female persuasion".

However, I did see a quotation about Michael Jackson on one of the brown racist web sites:

"Michael Jackson - born black, died white".

There's a couple of levels to that one.

[ilbegone]

AND FURTHERMORE Just kidding.

yes, you're correct. technically, she's a Californita Her family owned a ranch across the county line years ago. She's spanish colonial, not mexican. Chicana was an incorrect term but was used for convenience's sake.
Actually, she got a lot of hate for that, that's why she only dates whiteboys. Nevermind that she's ... more white than indian, and her mom is from EUROPE, not mexico. We used to get dirty looks all the time from mestizos. Racist pricksDoesn't matter her ancestry, She's American.

I know several of the brown girls who like the white boys. The last one who mentioned it said "Mexican (in the racial sense) guys are arrogant and possessive and want you to stay home while they go out and do their thing..."

Another friend who likes the white guys told me this story:

A low rider cholo type was talking crap to her about how she was a traitor to her race because she was dating white boys. She replied (in Spanish) about what an asshole hypocrite he was because he couldn't speak Spanish. He said "Huh?" and she retorted "exactly".

Another one said no more "Mexican" men, because she doesn't like getting beaten on.

A few years ago I read an editorial in Hoy daily which said, in Spanish, that men who beat their women like they were back in their home pueblo in Mexico were a disgrace to all Latinos.

However, not everyone is like that and to assume so is wrong.

Brown persuasion?

Not everyone is alike, regardless of how much people on both extreme sides of the issue try to make it so. The so called "Latino community" is hardly a monolithic structure of like minded people. There are all sorts of personalities and personal beliefs from various spectrums, as well as animosities and discord and people who use one another while pretending to like one another. I believe that the only thing which could cobble them together as a group is a perception of white racism, and quite a few of them are pounded daily with the message from brown racists, in one form or another, "The white man is out to get YOU!!!".