View Full Version : More fallout from the Koran burning plan

09-13-2010, 09:38 AM
Well, of course it didn't matter that the preacher chickened out of the Koran burning. They were foaming at the mouth in Muslim countries anyway.


Kashmir riots over Qur'an 'burning' leave 13 dead

American ambassador appeals for calm after police fire into angry crowds protesting amid Qur'an-burning controversy in US

Associated Press guardian.co.uk, Monday 13 September 2010 14.41 BST

image: Indian paramilitary forces on guard in Srinagar, the Kashmir capital, after riots across the territory Photograph: Yawar Nazir/Getty Images

Indian forces killed 13 protesters and wounded scores of others today in confrontations across Kashmir fueled in part by a report that a Qur'an was desecrated in the United States, a police official said.

The violence, the worst since separatist protests erupted in June, came as Indian officials debated whether to relax harsh security regulations to try to ease tensions in the disputed territory.

Despite a rigid curfew across the region, tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets, throwing rocks, torching government buildings and chanting, "Go India, go back. We want freedom."

Security forces fired live ammunition at some of the crowds, killing people in at least five villages, said a police officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to speak with media.

The protests were inflamed by reports on the Iranian state-run channel Press TV that the Qur'an was desecrated over the weekend in the United States.

US ambassador Timothy Roemer said his government was "dismayed" by the rioting and appealed for calm.

He also condemned any Qur'an desecration as "disrespectful, intolerant, divisive and unrepresentative of American values. The deliberate destruction of any holy book is an abhorrent act."

Kashmir is another place like Kosovo in the Balkans where baby-spewing Muslims from a neighboring Muslim country, Pakistan in this case, have taken over this Indian territory and demanded "independence". In Kosovo, which is a part of Serbia, the neighboring country is Albania. Kashmir is holy to India, just like Kosovo is holy to Serbia.

And of course death is too good for anyone who dares defile the Koran.


Iranian clerics call for slaying of Koran burners
From: NewsCore September 14, 2010 12:06AM

Two top Iranian clerics said anyone desecrating the Koran must be killed as hundreds of people protested on yesterady outside the Swiss embassy in Tehran.

"From the point of view of Islamic jurisprudence, strong objection to such thoughts is mandatory and necessary and killing the people who have committed this act is compulsory," Ayatollah Hossein Nouri Hamedani was quoted as saying by Fars news agency.

His view was echoed by Ayatollah Naser Makarem Shirazi who added that such a response must be taken after consulting a "religious judge."

"The blood of the person who burns the Koran can undoubtedly be shed. But in this issue, no action should be taken without the permission of a religious judge," Makarem Shirazi said.

American evangelical pastor Terry Jones had threatened in the run up to the 9th anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States to burn the Koran at his tiny Florida church. He later relented.

But a group of conservative Christians tore up pages of the Koran in a protest on Saturday outside the White House.

Top Iranian officials, including President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, have issued harsh criticism over the issue, with the hardliner even saying that a bid to burn the Muslim holy book was a "Zionist plot" that would lead to the speedy "annihilation" of Israel.

Meanwhile up to 500 people demonstrated outside the Swiss embassy in northern Tehran in protest against the United States over the Koran-burning issue.

An AFP photographer said the crowd, chanting anti-US and anti-Israel slogans, pelted stones at the embassy and tried to get into the building, but the guards prevented them from entering the premises.

Several protesters, carrying copies of the Koran on their heads, set US and Israel flags on fire as they chanted "Death to America! Death to Israel!", the photographer reported.

The Swiss embassy manages US interests in Iran since Washington and Tehran have had no diplomatic ties since the 1979 Islamic revolution.

The Koran is a book that expresses the importance of violence against non-believers. The violence that is excited by people damaging the Koran, is commanded by the Koran itself. The Koran is the source of the violence, not people abusing its pages.

Nobody who really respects something like "tolerance" can defend respect for such a work, no matter how old it is. For our own self protection, we need to stand up against it.

09-13-2010, 11:49 AM
Interpretation of the Quran and Bible can vary greatly

September 12, 2010

The Press-Enterprise

The Florida pastor who had vowed -- and then canceled plans -- to burn copies of the Quran says the Islamic holy book promotes violence, oppression and evil. Opponents of a new Temecula mosque use similar rhetoric.

Yet Islamic scholars say anti-Islam activists take wording in the Quran out of context, twisting a religion of peace into one of cruelty and hatred.

As with the Quran, if some biblical verses are interpreted word-for-word, they appear to promote violence or repression. For example, in Matthew 10:34, Jesus says, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the Earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Christian critics of Islam "would say 'no, no, that's not what it means. You have to put it in context,'" said Mustafa Umar, imam of the Islamic Society of Corona-Norco. "But they don't apply the same criteria to the Quran."

Anti-Islam activists in Riverside County and elsewhere point to specific Quranic verses as proof of Islam's promotion of violence and hatred. One verse, Surah 5:51, is sometimes translated as saying in part, "Take not the Jews and Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other."

Muzammil Siddiqi, a Garden Grove imam who chairs the Fiqh Council of North America, which interprets the Quran, said "friend" is an incorrect translation from Arabic. The verse is intended to teach Muslims that they should defend themselves rather than depend on others to protect them, he said.

The Quran elsewhere refers to the close ties among Muslims, Jews and Christians, who are together called the "People of the Book," reflecting similar beliefs on many matters and a shared reverence for Abraham, Moses, David and others. Jesus is a prophet in Islam. In the same chapter that anti-Islam activists say promotes hatred of Christians and Jews, the Quran says a Muslim can marry a Jew or Christian.

The Quran warns of severe punishments, including death, for those who "wage war against Allah and his Messenger," a statement that some interpret as promoting terrorism. But Siddiqi said the passage refers to unjust killing, such as that perpetrated on 9/11. He said the Quran strictly prohibits the murder of innocent people, as reflected in a fatwa -- a religious ruling-- that the Fiqh Council issued.

Siddiqi said terrorists who call themselves Muslim "are getting their ideas from their own evil minds."

Mustafa Kuko, imam of the Islamic Center of Riverside, said a small number of Muslims misinterpret the Quran in the same way that anti-Islam activists do.

Individual verses in the Quran should be read in the larger context of the holy book, Siddiqi said.

"The Quran speaks of kindness, mercy, charity, honesty, sincerity, purity of life," he said. "That's the Islamic way."

The Jewish Bible -- the Old Testament of the Christian Bible -- contains numerous violent passages, said Rabbi Suzanne Singer, of Temple Beth El in Riverside.

"The people who wrote it were flawed and very influenced by the mores of the time and the understanding people at the time had of human beings and of God," Singer said.

Biblical interpretation is a key factor in the differences among Christian denominations.

While the Seventh-day Adventist Church believes creation occurred in exactly six 24-hour days, the Catholic Church does not take a position on the precise timing of creation, saying Genesis does not have to be interpreted literally and that scientific evolutionary theory is compatible with Catholic teaching.

Much of the Bible is comprised of stories that illustrate a point and cannot be taken literally, said the Rev. Michael Sturn, pastor of St. George Catholic Church in Ontario. Catholic theologians continue to study the Bible to determine how verses should be interpreted, Sturn said.

Several Protestant churches have changed their teaching on homosexuality in recent years as they began interpreting verses on the subject differently than in the past. Few issues have divided mainline Protestantism as strongly, with some members of the denominations assailing what they see as distorted interpretations of biblical verses by fellow congregants. Most U.S. Christian denominations continue to view homosexual behavior as a sin.

That has a profound effect on issues such as same-sex marriage. Opinion polls show that evangelical Christians, who typically believe in a more literal interpretation of the Bible than more liberal Christians, are much more likely to oppose gay marriage than other voters. The Rev. Jane Quandt, pastor of First Congregational Church of Riverside, said it is impossible to separate the Bible from the culture of the people who wrote it. Quandt belongs to the United Church of Christ, which performs same-sex marriages and ordains openly lesbian and gay ministers.

Quandt said biblical passages against homosexual behavior stem from a different understanding of same-sex intimacy.

"There was no notion of sexual orientation at that time," she said. "Obviously homosexual behavior has always occurred. But it was understood as an act. The notion that people could fall in love with each other and have committed, covenanted, lifelong relationships with one another did not exist."

She said those who literally interpret biblical verses on homosexuality ignore other passages, such as those that bar the eating of shellfish or the trimming of beards and sideburns, or the one in which Jesus tells his followers to hate their parents.

"They seem to pick and choose what is literal," Quandt said.

Dan Wilson, dean of the School of Christian Ministries at California Baptist University in Riverside, which is affiliated with the theologically conservative Southern Baptist Convention, said some biblical verses are symbolic and should be interpreted as such. When it is not entirely clear, "the default is to interpret it literally," he said.

Wilson said the Bible is consistent in multiple verses in its definition of homosexuality and adultery as sins. But Wilson said he still struggles with interpreting parts of the Bible. In determining how literally to read passages, context is key, he said.

"To interpret any text out of the context in which it sits is very dangerous," Wilson said. "I tell my class, 'You can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say.' "



And you can interpret the Koran as well as any other sort of religious text in any manner convenient to the agenda at hand.

Patriotic Army Mom
09-16-2010, 08:26 AM
They protest towards America all the time. They just think they have a good reason now!