Mexifornia State Flower - Revisited

[CitaDeL]

On the previous forum I had a running thread about the proliferation of Marijuana grows in my reletively quiet neck of the woods. It continues seemingly without abatement as this recent article from The Record-Searchlight illustrates.

I am not a consumer, but I will be voting in favor of legalization of pot for the sole purpose of stifling the growth of illicit Mexican cartel activity in the forest lands nearby.

http://www.redding.com/news/2010/jul/20/300k-marijuana-plants-destroyed-shasta-county-mont/


300K marijuana plants destroyed in Shasta County this month
By Ryan Sabalow

Originally published 10:28 a.m., July 20, 2010
Updated 10:28 a.m., July 20, 2010

It’s been a busy month so far in the efforts to eradicate illegal marijuana gardens in the north state's backcountry.

Nearly 300,000 marijuana plants have been pulled from illegal gardens in Shasta County so far this month, said Sgt. Steve Solus, who heads the Shasta County Sheriff’s Office marijuana eradication efforts.

Solus said the busts will easily eclipse the record number of 630,000 plants pulled in Shasta County last year.

“We only got started last month” because of a late spring, Solus said.

Law enforcement officials have pulled more than 92,000 plants from illegal gardens in the Shasta-Trinity National Forest this month alone, forest spokeswoman Rita Vollmer said today.

The largest garden was near Hayfork, in which 46,000 plants were found in a single garden, Vollmer said.

Forest service law enforcement officers also arrested one man, Gauldry Almonte-Hernandez, of Mexico who ran during a raid on July 9 near Hayfork, Vollmer said.

Solus said that his agents have arrested around 20 suspects in connection with the grows. Most the suspects were Mexican growers arrested on suspicion of federal drug trafficking charges, he said.

[Ayatollahgondola]

I am not a consumer, but I will be voting in favor of legalization of pot for the sole purpose of stifling the growth of illicit Mexican cartel activity in the forest lands nearby.

Strawberries are legal, and with that comes farmworkers who are still in cahoots with the cartels. The difference would end up being, when you catch the illegal growers of dope, you can charge them and deport them. Strawberry pickers though will be able to collect WIC, Welfare, Food Stamps, and free education for their offspring. Who will need it when they grow up too, because they will also be smoking weed

[Twoller]

Yes. I too will be voting yes on Proposition 19.

The legalization of cannabis for adult personal use in California is going to turn a lot of things around. The drug cartels in Mexico will suffer the most from the resulting crash in the price of marijuana. The "medical marijuana" dispensaries they have been most certainly selling to will evaporate over night. Gone. Did you know that these dispensaries have been actually fighting Prop 19? They are saying all kinds of weird stuff like cannabis will be turned over to huge corporations and the variety of stuff that you get on the street -- oh, I mean at the clinic -- will fall and so will the quality.

Anyone who thinks they are opposed to the legalization of marijuana has got to confront the reality of the "medical marijuana" dispensaries. Everybody knows that for all effective purposes, "medical marijuana" is just a license to get high and the people who are selling it, got there because they were dealing it on the street at one time. If the stuff were medicine, then how come they are still selling it at black market prices? Where is the money going?

This is how rotten this country has gotten, and the Drug War has done too much to contribute to that rot. Victory for Proposition 19 is the beginning of the end of the Drug War. And the prospect must give every dope dealer a chill up and down his spine.

[CitaDeL]

Strawberries are legal, and with that comes farmworkers who are still in cahoots with the cartels. The difference would end up being, when you catch the illegal growers of dope, you can charge them and deport them. Strawberry pickers though will be able to collect WIC, Welfare, Food Stamps, and free education for their offspring. Who will need it when they grow up too, because they will also be smoking weed

The flip side to arresting and deporting the Cartel MJ growers is that once the trade is legitimized, the price of the product is going to drop. If it is no longer cost effective to compete against legal grows, the Cartel will find other business for their MJ growers. If I had a guess, it would be manufacturing Meth.

[Ayatollahgondola]

If I had a guess, it would be manufacturing Meth.
Well that's a pleasant future to look for

[Rim05]

I will be voting against the bill and any others that make dangerous drugs legal. I voted for the legal medical use and look what happened. I voted for the medical use because in a cancer group meeting one of the patients said that was the only thing that gave him relief. Now look at what we have?

Why are we too weak/lazy to protect our citizens from the dangers of drugs? Could it be because our politicians are into the same trade?
I will never consume/smoke any thing that will alter my thinking or reasoning. We need to remember we are not protecting our future children when we allow things to happen.

We gave up on alcohol and look at what we have now. I don't know what would have happened if we had not given up but I did know an alocholic at one time and he was a sad case.

It is sad what people do to them selves but we do have to live with the results.

[Twoller]

I will be voting against the bill and any others that make dangerous drugs legal. I voted for the legal medical use and look what happened. I voted for the medical use because in a cancer group meeting one of the patients said that was the only thing that gave him relief. Now look at what we have?

Why are we too weak/lazy to protect our citizens from the dangers of drugs? Could it be because our politicians are into the same trade?
I will never consume/smoke any thing that will alter my thinking or reasoning. We need to remember we are not protecting our future children when we allow things to happen.

We gave up on alcohol and look at what we have now. I don't know what would have happened if we had not given up but I did know an alocholic at one time and he was a sad case.

It is sad what people do to them selves but we do have to live with the results.

You are not thinking very hard on this issue. You say you went to a cancer group meeting and just one person saying that they got their sole relief from marijuana was enough to convince you to vote for "medical marijuana"? It never occured to you, not even once, that nobody getting medical marijuana would be getting it just to get high?

We are not too weak or lazy to protect our citizens from drugs, we are just too stupid. The Drug War is the consequence of moral hysteria and has nothing to do with the actual problem of confronting drugs as a source of recreation and all the hazards associated with them. The prohibition of alcohol did not work. Criminalizing alcohol did not work and criminalizing the consumption of cannabis isn't working either. It has made the hazards associated with this plant worse.

Marijuana is a social hazard just like alcohol is a social hazard. But the way to confront them is not by criminalizing them. By making marijuana legal, we destroy the extremely volatile black market and reduce its distribution to community controlled outlets. Once legalized, fewer people will be distributing it and it will be harder to get. School kids say that it is easier to get then alcohol.

In California, the dispensaries are everywhere and everyone with some kind of medical services has got their license to get high. Notice that it's not the end of the world, at least on the consumption side. Nobody is reporting some kind of plague resulting from people smoking "medical marijuana".

The legalization of marijuana will be the beginning of the end of the problem. Once legalized, inside of just a few years, consumption will drop down to less than half of what it is now, especially among young users who will no longer find it as glamorous as it once was. It is the secretive, cult like association around marijuana as a criminal activity that excites their imagination and spikes the effects of being stoned.

[Commander Bunny]

Here's the 92,00-plant bust in Hayfork:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/jul/u-s-calls-illegal-mexican-pot-farmer-displaced-traveler

He's not an illegal Alien pot Farmer, He's a "displaced Traveller"...jeez...

[Commander Bunny]

From the sonoma county rag.

Man killed in Mendocino pot garden raid
Sheriff's officer shot man with rifle at large remote garden 4 miles west of Tehama County line.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100727/ARTICLES/100729548/1349?Title=Man-killed-in-pot-garden-raid

[Ayatollahgondola]

Pot wars

You go to the country to escape all the shootings in the city, and look what happens.
People still think they can move away from it.

[Patriotic Army Mom]

This is one touchy subject with me!!!!!!!!!!!!! Meth, pot, and everything else that goes with it. Has anyone taken a walk in a cemetery? Too bad they don't say on the tomb stone what the person died from. Addiction will keep many going, more messed up and violent homes, more stealing, regardless of the price, more torn up homes and broken hearts. Easier for our children to get. I have a 13 and 15 year old and I'm like a drug undercover. It's scares me to think that they will get into that world. So far, so good.
I've seen people say that their children have died of heart attacks, when in fact it was due to an overdose. Pills are into this equation also.
Make it all legal, I love getting beaten up by a drug freak! Yes, and I've buried a few do to alcohol also.

[Twoller]

With legalization, the distribution to children and the illicit grows and all the things that gangsters use to make black market profits will vanish, just like the violence and criminal power that we saw during the prohibition of alcohol.

And meanwhile we have a plague of "medical marijuana" dispensaries. These are nothing but places that sell pot for black market profits at black market prices to people who have a pet doctor who gave them a license to get stoned. That's all they are and we got them from a proposition. If you supported "medical marijuana", then you have a responsibility to clean up after yourself.

Vote yes for Proposition 19. We will see a crash in the street price of marijuana and we will see that suck the life out of organized crime. Marijuana distribution is one of the most profitable trades in organized crime. As a drug it requires little to no processing. You just grow it, pick the flowers off and sell it. At $50 a gram. 50$ for one gram!. You know how much a Snicker's bar weighs? Almost 60 grams! (2 ounces) At $50 a gram, a Snicker's bar would cost $3,000. This is the black market and the black market is created by criminalization of the item being marketed. Decriminalize the market and black market prices crash hard.

Vote yes for Proposition 19 and take pot out of the schools and off the streets and kick the anti-establishment/gangster chic into the rubbish heap where it is long past due.

[Rim05]

I voted for medical use of the weed once when I thought it would be used for medical purposes. I got a bunch of places where the recreational users can go and get what they want. I will never fall for that BS again, never.

[Twoller]

I voted for medical use of the weed once when I thought it would be used for medical purposes. I got a bunch of places where the recreational users can go and get what they want. I will never fall for that BS again, never.

If you are opposed to Prop 19, what do you think should be done about the "medical marijuana" dispensaries?

[Commander Bunny]

With legalization, the distribution to children and the illicit grows and all the things that gangsters use to make black market profits will vanish, just like the violence and criminal power that we saw during the prohibition of alcohol.

And meanwhile we have a plague of "medical marijuana" dispensaries. These are nothing but places that sell pot for black market profits at black market prices to people who have a pet doctor who gave them a license to get stoned. That's all they are and we got them from a proposition. If you supported "medical marijuana", then you have a responsibility to clean up after yourself.

Vote yes for Proposition 19. We will see a crash in the street price of marijuana and we will see that suck the life out of organized crime. Marijuana distribution is one of the most profitable trades in organized crime. As a drug it requires little to no processing. You just grow it, pick the flowers off and sell it. At $50 a gram. 50$ for one gram!. You know how much a Snicker's bar weighs? Almost 60 grams! (2 ounces) At $50 a gram, a Snicker's bar would cost $3,000. This is the black market and the black market is created by criminalization of the item being marketed. Decriminalize the market and black market prices crash hard.

Vote yes for Proposition 19 and take pot out of the schools and off the streets and kick the anti-establishment/gangster chic into the rubbish heap where it is long past due.
I agree, legalizing it will drive the Cartel out of Our State Parks/National Parks-forrests.
But like AG noted, it will probably swing Them into more meth/heroin. trafficking.
I voted for medical cannabis back in '96, and saw every thing in the book on how to abuse the system, I knew plenty of Folks with absolutely nothing wrong with Them get a 'reccomendaion", and set-up lights, and make about $3600 a lb, some counties have extremely lax regulations on growing, my County does'nt, 6 plants, or You go to jail, no profit to be made.
But when the Cartels started up bussiness growing in Ca. the price dropped to about $2000-$2500, even the "Old-School" growers up in the Emerald triangle closed-up shop, and all of those Counties are doing really bad as far as roads, schools, etc.
You'll see tons of pregnant illegals, but not a male to be seen, untill harvest, then They're all- over the place, up in Mendo/Humboldt.
Even the high School in My ancestral homeTown of covelo was closed on opening week because of the rumor of major gang fights between locals, and anchor-babies.
the old Growers bought, and spent Their cash locally.
The cartel Growers get Their supplies at places like Granger, in Barstow, or Fresno, and ship it in...I've found tons of irrigation tubing, water bladders, and such just hiking in My neck of the woods, and I usually destroy it, or remove it, or report it.
From what I know, the "dispensaries" charge about $35-$60 and 1/8th of an ounce, more for certain specialty strains, but $50 a gram?..no.

I think that Cap&trade, and the smartmeters are going to put a major dent in indoor growing.

[Twoller]

$35 for an eighth is still $560 for a Snicker's bar.

You missed the point about the profitability of black market marijuana. All the other drugs require some kind of elaborate processing which is time consuming and expensive and the stuff cannot move without it. Even heroin comes from opium, which is extremely simple to move. You just slice the poppy pods, collect it and move it. And opium has been a real misery as a black market drug. But the economics of drug distribution now require processing and you can't get raw opium any more, you get heroin which is a complicated chemical extract of opium. All this processing is a huge risk and cuts into the profits of organized crime, but they can't move it without it.

Marijuana has no such expense. You just grow it, pick it and ship it at $35 dollars for an eighth of an ounce.

Legalization will be a dramatic blow to the cartels. Where do you think the "dispensaries" are getting their drugs from? Seriously, do you really believe that local growers are growing it all themselves, that they sprung up like magic elves to help the poor sick stoners who couldn't make it without it? Sure, the stuff is being laundered through people dispensed to grow it. They knew who the cartels were long before the dispensaries came along.

[Patriotic Army Mom]

If you are opposed to Prop 19, what do you think should be done about the "medical marijuana" dispensaries?
Let the doctors who write the prescription, dispense it!

[Commander Bunny]

$35 for an eighth is still $560 for a Snicker's bar.

You missed the point about the profitability of black market marijuana. All the other drugs require some kind of elaborate processing which is time consuming and expensive and the stuff cannot move without it. Even heroin comes from opium, which is extremely simple to move. You just slice the poppy pods, collect it and move it. And opium has been a real misery as a black market drug. But the economics of drug distribution now require processing and you can't get raw opium any more, you get heroin which is a complicated chemical extract of opium. All this processing is a huge risk and cuts into the profits of organized crime, but they can't move it without it.

Marijuana has no such expense. You just grow it, pick it and ship it at $35 dollars for an eighth of an ounce.

Legalization will be a dramatic blow to the cartels. Where do you think the "dispensaries" are getting their drugs from? Seriously, do you really believe that local growers are growing it all themselves, that they sprung up like magic elves to help the poor sick stoners who couldn't make it without it? Sure, the stuff is being laundered through people dispensed to grow it. They knew who the cartels were long before the dispensaries came along.No, I don't believe that the local Ma & Pa Growers are selling it to the clubs, there's no, or little profit to the risk factor in that when the Cartel flooded the market with $2000lb pot, I actually agree with You on that post.
There is albiet rather simple, a correct proccess in the harvesting of cannabis, You do it wrong, You waste Your crop's value, just like the reason pot grown in Mexico is called "dirt weed"..they messed that up.
High-end pot has to be hung & dried to about 10% moisture content, then manicured properly, a very laborious task, if You've got tons of it.
The going rate for a illegal (usually women) manicurer is around $20/hr up north.
In most Countries they just rub the plant for it's resins, and toss the whole plant away.
From what I hear, most clubs won't even buy outdoor cannabis, indoor has much more potency, and the cartels even in on that as well, do a search for "diesle-doping"..the Cartel's been running 5KW-10KW diesle generators for lights in semi buried, or covered greenhouses, or Quanset huts for years now, and let's them get a crop, or two in before the weather gets nice enough to rape the parklands..
Counties up north have put dye-markers in batches of fuel, and have found remnants flowing into Eureka bay from rivers, that flow into creeks, and alot of times they do catch these guys.

[Twoller]

No, I don't believe that the local Ma & Pa Growers are selling it to the clubs, there's no, or little profit to the risk factor in that when the Cartel flooded the market with $2000lb pot, I actually agree with You on that post.

There is albiet rather simple, a correct proccess in the harvesting of cannabis, You do it wrong, You waste Your crop's value, just like the reason pot grown in Mexico is called "dirt weed"..they messed that up.
High-end pot has to be hung & dried to about 10% moisture content, then manicured properly, a very laborious task, if You've got tons of it.
The going rate for a illegal (usually women) manicurer is around $20/hr up north.

In most Countries they just rub the plant for it's resins, and toss the whole plant away.

From what I hear, most clubs won't even buy outdoor cannabis, indoor has much more potency, and the cartels even in on that as well, do a search for "diesle-doping"..the Cartel's been running 5KW-10KW diesle generators for lights in semi buried, or covered greenhouses, or Quanset huts for years now, and let's them get a crop, or two in before the weather gets nice enough to rape the parklands..

Counties up north have put dye-markers in batches of fuel, and have found remnants flowing into Eureka bay from rivers, that flow into creeks, and alot of times they do catch these guys.

Manicuring buds is for when you are selling buds. I don't think street sales includes buds. And buds are pretty delicate. They don't move far without breaking up.

When you rub the flowers, this is rubbed hashish which is rare and expensive and does not represent the serious money in the marijuana black market. Seived hashish is more common and is still pretty rare on the street. Proposition 19 does not confront the issue of hashish -- an ommision if you ask me, especially since hashish is the more traditional way of distributing cannabis as a drug.

It remains. Marijuana is the easy money part of dope dealing for the cartels. Take it away with Proposition 19 and it will be a real blow to the economy driving the civil war down in Mexico and a good part of the economy of illegal immigration from the same place.

[Rim05]

Yes, by any means, let us make it legal. Then, some years down the road, some ones 10 year old is sitting in his/her class room in a daze. They are not learning very much today as it is.

I will continue to try and protect children and stupid adults by voting against anything that is a danger to ones health, physical or mental.

[Twoller]

Yes, by any means, let us make it legal. Then, some years down the road, some ones 10 year old is sitting in his/her class room in a daze. They are not learning very much today as it is.

I will continue to try and protect children and stupid adults by voting against anything that is a danger to ones health, physical or mental.

You are not paying attention.

The current problem is that the stuff is already in the schools. The reason it is in the schools is because criminalizing marijuana inflames the black market. By legalizing it, the black market is destroyed and the street traffic that brings it to the schools will go away.

Vote yes on Proposition 19 and we will take marijuana out of the schools. Kids will no longer be smoking pot in schools, just as they don't use alcohol in schools.

[Commander Bunny]

From the touchy-feely sanctuary County paper...He's a victim, hey, let's all forget that He attempted to shoot an Officer, right?
"Kalina described his former client as easy going, soft spoken and well mannered".
Former Client, busted for the same exact thing, but let's also toss-in the "hard-working Father" bit as well...this sickens Me to no end.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100729/ARTICLES/100729385/1350?Title=Details-emerge-about-Mendocino-pot-garden-victim-

[Rim05]

You are not paying attention.

The current problem is that the stuff is already in the schools. The reason it is in the schools is because criminalizing marijuana inflames the black market. By legalizing it, the black market is destroyed and the street traffic that brings it to the schools will go away.

Vote yes on Proposition 19 and we will take marijuana out of the schools. Kids will no longer be smoking pot in schools, just as they don't use alcohol in schools.

Yes, I am paying attention or I would not be posting about how I will never again vote for something like making it legal to purchase something like marijuana.

There is no more need for me to engage in conversation with you because you are an avid supporter and I am not. I will continue to fight against it.

[Twoller]

Article date: Wednesday, 7 May 2008

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7388036.stm

Students arrested in US drug raid

Image: Police said some students did little to hide their drug dealing

Twenty-nine people, most of them students, have been arrested in a drugs raid at a university in California.

The raid on Tuesday was part of a year-long operation triggered by the death of a San Diego State University student from a cocaine overdose last year.

In total, police seized several guns, large sums of money, 2kg (4.4lbs) of cocaine and 23kg (51lbs) of marijuana.

Undercover officers found some students openly dealing drugs - one sent a mass text message listing special prices.

During the course of the year-long investigation, a total of 96 people were arrested, including 75 San Diego State University students.

Drug 'sale'

Several of those arrested belonged to university college clubs, known as fraternities, six of which were suspended following Tuesday's raid.

Also among those arrested was a student who was about to receive a criminal justice degree, and another who was to receive a master's degree in homeland security, police said.

In the course of the investigation, undercover officers infiltrated seven campus fraternities and discovered that in some, most of the members were aware of organised drug dealing, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) said.

Officers purchased cocaine from fraternity members and confirmed that a hierarchy existed for the purpose of selling drugs for money.

The DEA said one fraternity member sent out a mass text message to customers stating that he would be unable to sell cocaine while in Las Vegas for a fraternity event.

The text promoted a cocaine "sale" and listed reduced prices for bulk quantities.

Police began the investigation after Shirley Poliakoff, 19, died from a cocaine overdose on campus in May 2007.

During the course of the investigation, a student from another college died of a cocaine overdose at a fraternity house on campus, the DEA said.

[Twoller]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-10811870

29 July 2010

Police seize $1.7bn worth of marijuana in California

Almost half a million marijuana plants were seized Police in California say they have seized $1.7bn worth of marijuana plants in the Sierra Nevada mountains.

They have also arrested 97 people over the past three weeks, most of them Mexican nationals believed to have ties with Mexican drug cartels.

White House drug czar Gil Kerlikowske said police had found industrial-sized plantations of marijuana.

Experts say Mexican cartels are increasingly growing marijuana in the US, rather than smuggling it there.

450 officers from local, state and federal agencies took part in the raids in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada in California.

They found more than a hundred locations where marijuana was being grown illegally.

OPERATION TRIDENT

Continue reading the main story 432,271 marijuana plants destroyed
499 pounds processed marijuana seized
97 people arrested


Fresno County Sheriff Margaret Mims said the marijuana plantations were a danger to local residents, as the organised crime gangs behind them "don't just grow marijuana on our public lands".

"They continue their criminal conduct during their off-season with other illegal drug and violent activities in our local communities," she said.

Director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy Gil Kerlikowske said "tremendous devastation" had been done by the industrial-sized fields.

He said eradication teams removed thousands of pounds of toxic fertilizers and rubbish from the sites.


1.7 billion dollars for 499 pounds of marijuana and 432,000 plants. How much is that per Snicker's bar? Still an awful lot.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7388036.stmThis happened over two years ago.

[Twoller]

This happened over two years ago.

You are right. This is an old article. The article was linked at the bottom of the first article on the huge marijuana bust and I didn't look at the date.

Still, it is worth looking at again. It could have happened yesterday. It could happen again tomorrow. It is all due to our prohibition era approach to the drug problem.

[Ayatollahgondola]

From Fish and Game site today:



http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/news10/2010073001-Tehama-MJ-Raid.html

The Department of Fish and Game (DFG), with support from two other agencies, raided an illegal marijuana garden in Tehama Wildlife Area (TWA) early this morning. Eight thousand marijuana plants were eradicated with an estimated value of $24-32 million. Two 9 mm pistols were recovered from the garden.

Warden Scott Williams, DFG's lead investigator in the operation, headed a team of five game wardens supported by one Special Agent from the Bureau of Land Management and six deputies from the Tehama County Sheriff's Department.

The raid began around 12 a.m. today. A surprise nighttime raid of a pot garden's sleeping area is the most effective way of apprehending suspects in such remote and mountainous conditions. Wardens arrested one suspect, Guillermo Cruz Lopez, 23, of Chiapas, Mexico. A second suspect escaped capture.

Lopez will be charged with cultivating marijuana and possession of marijuana for sale (Health and Safety Code, sections 11358 and 11359) and unlawful activities in a state wildlife area (California Code of Regulations Title 14, section 550[b]). Additional charges will be filed for an illegal water diversion, pollution and other environmental damage. The growers had constructed a cistern for the application of chemical fertilizers or pesticides through the irrigation system. This application method is very dangerous to both wildlife and people who have no idea the water in the pipes is contaminated with chemicals.

TWA, a popular outdoor recreation and hunting area owned by DFG, is east of Red Bluff near the town of Paynes Creek. A hunter discovered and reported a harvested and abandoned marijuana garden in the Antelope Creek drainage during last fall's late season G-1 deer hunt. Game wardens investigated the site and found gardening equipment left behind. The carefully hidden tools and a full irrigation system led them to believe the garden would be used again in the coming spring. DFG began regular surveillance of the garden in March 2010.

Working alongside a federal agent from the Bureau of Land Management and in coordination with Tehama County Sheriff's deputies, DFG wardens observed renewed activity in the garden. Over the course of several months, the wardens were able to locate supply drop locations and map out the garden's infrastructure. Garden workers were also observed tending to the marijuana and retrieving supplies.

Ongoing surveillance indicated increased activity within the garden over the past week, leading the wardens to believe that harvesting had started taking place and processed marijuana was already being removed from the site for distribution.

The tenders of marijuana gardens often possess firearms for personal protection and to illegally take wildlife both for food and to stop animals from damaging the plants. Illegal growers also possess firearms to defend themselves against law enforcement or an unwanted encounter with unwitting outdoor enthusiasts. This creates a grave danger to anyone using state lands set aside for the public's recreational use.

[Rim05]

I would surmise that these gardens are controlled by the Cartels?
I will never know why people will try anything new (drugs of any kind) without knowing what it will do to their bodies or mind. I guess we cannot help everyone.

Glad to hear about any 'grow' being taken down.

[Twoller]

Hmmm... Eight thousand marijuana plants at a black market value of 24-32 million dollars That's 24-32 million divided by 8 thousand for 3-4 thousand dollars a plant.

The more grows they find and bust, the more the black market prices go up. So the stuff they don't find is worth even more. And meanwhile, how much is it costing the taxpayers to have law enforcement running around looking for the stuff being grown mostly by illegal immigrants?

If we decriminalize marijuana, we will have more resources to hunt down illegals so they don't get comfortable enough to do this kind of crap. But of course we are obliged to wait around for them to commit a second crime before we can arrest them for being here illegally. And there are scumbags telling us we can't even do that.

Vote yes on Proposition 19. Destroy the black market in marijuana and watch the cockroaches scramble for crumbs.

[Ayatollahgondola]

Hmmm... Eight thousand marijuana plants at a black market value of 24-32 million dollars That's 24-32 million divided by 8 thousand for 3-4 thousand dollars a plant.

The more grows they find and bust, the more the black market prices go up. So the stuff they don't find is worth even more. And meanwhile, how much is it costing the taxpayers to have law enforcement running around looking for the stuff being grown mostly by illegal immigrants?

If we decriminalize marijuana, we will have more resources to hunt down illegals so they don't get comfortable enough to do this kind of crap. But of course we are obliged to wait around for them to commit a second crime before we can arrest them for being here illegally. And there are scumbags telling us we can't even do that.

Vote yes on Proposition 19. Destroy the black market in marijuana and watch the cockroaches scramble for crumbs.

In legalizing alcohol, we may have removed the crime syndicate from the mix, but the initial problems associated with it remained and grew. Alcoholism remains a big problem in America, and many people who don't use it are injured and killed by those who do each year. The way I see it, we negotiated with the users and got the bad end of the deal. The jails are now full of wife and child beaters, DUI arrestees, Drunk and disorderly arrests, Manslaughter, and many other manifestations of crime born out of the use and abuse of alcohol that when taken in aggregate, dwarf the magnitude of fighting the underworld.

[Twoller]

In legalizing alcohol, we may have removed the crime syndicate from the mix, but the initial problems associated with it remained and grew. Alcoholism remains a big problem in America, and many people who don't use it are injured and killed by those who do each year. The way I see it, we negotiated with the users and got the bad end of the deal. The jails are now full of wife and child beaters, DUI arrestees, Drunk and disorderly arrests, Manslaughter, and many other manifestations of crime born out of the use and abuse of alcohol that when taken in aggregate, dwarf the magnitude of fighting the underworld.

But you are assuming that during the prohibition of alcohol that these problems went away. They didn't. And also you assume that just because alcohol was involved in a crime means that alcohol caused the criminal behavior. Furthermore, marijuana nowhere aggrevates behavior like alcohol does. Criminal activity follows marijuana only because of the criminal activity surrounding its black market distribution. Unless you have a "medical" license, the more you smoke, the more likely you are to be close to other criminal activity.

Again, remember the dispensaries. The "medical marijuana" dispensaries are nothing more than a place to sell pot to people with a license to get stoned. Does anyone dispute this? The "medical marijuana" dispensaries have been around for a long time now and we have a fixed population of regular pot smokers who buy as much as they want, any time they want and smoke as much as they want any time they want. If smoking marijuana was such a social hazard like alcohol, then we would be seeing a plague of problems that could easily be traced to the dispensary customers. If anything, the dispensaries have served to isolate users from criminal activity, even when their money goes into the pockets of organzed crime.

Think of countries in the world who have outlawed alcohol, mostly Muslim countries. Would anyone describe these countries as temperate countries, where people live peacably and morally advanced lives. If anything the state has assumed the role of a gangster, imposing cruel and sick punishment on people for the most trivial of crimes.

But even acknowledging that alcohol is a hazardous drug does not impune marijuana. Marijuana is a relatively safe drug compared to alcohol, this is indisputable. If anything we should legalize marijuana, while at the same time further restrict the distributiion of alcohol. I would support this. In many ways, the end of the prohibition of alcohol is incomplete. We need a comprehensive reorganization of our whole strategy of combating all of the socially hazardous vices like alcohol, marijuana and tobacco too.

[Patriotic Army Mom]

Saying yes, won't keep it out of the schools! Crap kids sneak in booze too. And cigarettes and porn at times. This would make it easier to sneak it from their parents, or what ever. I've buried several who died at an early age to this stuff, mixed with other stuff, so like Rimo, no one can budge me on this. I don't know what will be the outcome, but it will sure dumb down our children. Even adults. Pot can be addictive. Let the doctors give it out to those that need it, and that will control it.

[Patriotic Army Mom]

Yes, I am paying attention or I would not be posting about how I will never again vote for something like making it legal to purchase something like marijuana.

There is no more need for me to engage in conversation with you because you are an avid supporter and I am not. I will continue to fight against it.

Do you have teenagers in school?

[Patriotic Army Mom]

In legalizing alcohol, we may have removed the crime syndicate from the mix, but the initial problems associated with it remained and grew. Alcoholism remains a big problem in America, and many people who don't use it are injured and killed by those who do each year. The way I see it, we negotiated with the users and got the bad end of the deal. The jails are now full of wife and child beaters, DUI arrestees, Drunk and disorderly arrests, Manslaughter, and many other manifestations of crime born out of the use and abuse of alcohol that when taken in aggregate, dwarf the magnitude of fighting the underworld.

Your right on Ayatolla.

[Twoller]

Saying yes, won't keep it out of the schools! Crap kids sneak in booze too. And cigarettes and porn at times. This would make it easier to sneak it from their parents, or what ever. I've buried several who died at an early age to this stuff, mixed with other stuff, so like Rimo, no one can budge me on this. I don't know what will be the outcome, but it will sure dumb down our children. Even adults. Pot can be addictive. Let the doctors give it out to those that need it, and that will control it.

If kids are sneaking cigarettes, alcohol and pornography into school, then criminalizing marijuana to keep it out of schools makes no sense. It doesn't work for alcohol, cigarettes and pornography, then why should anyone expect it to work for marijuana? Why should we create an entire legal system to do something that it never is going to do?

Get rid of the prohibition of marijuana. Put police back to work doing real police work and leave the policing of children where it belongs -- their parents.

Do you have teenagers in school?

I was a teenager in school. I saw marijuana in the schools. I saw people dealing it in school. And the whole lure of dealing the stuff was the black market prices. It was easy money made by people with no sense or brains.

[Rim05]

Do you have teenagers in school?


I do not have any teens in school.
My stand on any kind of addictive pass time is because I have lived long enough to witness the wasted lives caused by bad decisions concerning drugs.
It is sad to me to see adults promoting the legalizing of drugs. I hope my stead fast resolve to stop the legalizing of drugs will help parents such as you who do have teens. It is the least I can do for our future adult citizens.

[Rim05]

A lot of decent people came to the US from Mexico due to Narco-coruption caused by US Drug abuse.

The problem is US Drug Abuse is killing mexico. Drug Abuse an Narco-corruption is a threat to our national character and integrity. Legalizing drugs won't fix bad character, and the corrosive affects of the drug use and narco corruption and culture of illegal bahavior it fosters.

CRACK DOWN ON DRUG USERS in the US, make it a crime and shame those users who are killing Mexico and endangering our republic.

A lot of illegals are here for opportunity and safety from the evil caused by narco-crime and narco corruption. Fight it here and in Mexico. STOP ACCEPTTING DRUG USE AS OK. Don't Legalize drug use. It won't solve the problem, the criminals will still exist and move to harder drugs. ATTACK DRUG USE.

The above is copied from a comment concerning drugs that I read this morning. Please note that the person said,"Leaglizing drugs will not solve the problem", and NO ,I am not the poster.

[Patriotic Army Mom]

Maybe we should legalize, guns, and all bad things so that the world will be a better place. There have been drugs in schools since I was in school and gangs also. I have witnessed the evil this stuff brings. Families detroyed. And even if it was cheaper, would that stop the addicts from stealing less money from their parents or family? I think not!

[Twoller]

I do not have any teens in school.
My stand on any kind of addictive pass time is because I have lived long enough to witness the wasted lives caused by bad decisions concerning drugs.
It is sad to me to see adults promoting the legalizing of drugs. I hope my stead fast resolve to stop the legalizing of drugs will help parents such as you who do have teens. It is the least I can do for our future adult citizens.



Yes, there are many lives ruined by drugs, and that includes marijuana. Marijuana is capable of ruining your life. I've seen people smoking marijuana who should not have been doing it. Not even a little bit, and they were doing it a lot. They would get up in the morning, get stoned, and then get stoned at lunch, then dinner and then go to bed stoned. It happens. Even though marijuana is not addictive, marijuana is capable of ruining your life.

But meanwhile, we have an entire population of users who get stoned legally because they have a license to get stoned from a medical doctor. If you are opposed to legalization, then you must be opposed to the so called "medical marijuana" dispensaries. Getting marijuana from the dispensaries is not medicine, even though doctors are involved. "Medical marijuana" is not a prescription. When you get a prescription, the doctor limits how much you get and how long you get it for. With a prescription, you can buy only so much and just once and when you run out, you have to go back to the doctor and get another prescription.

But with "medical marijuana", you have a life time license to buy it whenever you want for as much as the dispensary will sell you and you can use as much as you want, any time you want. Medical doctors have made this possible and the rot in our medical establishment that this represents deserves another discussion. But meanwhile, it is to marijuana's credit that as rotten as this is, it has not been a total disaster. There are millions of people out there getting stoned regularly and there is no evidence that it is doing anyone any medical or social harm.

But there is considerable evidence that the "medical marijuana" dispensaries are contributing to organized crime. There is no accountability from the dispensaries to the public about where the marijuana comes from and where the money goes. And the dispensaries are charging black market prices.

If you are opposed to the general legalization represented by Proposition 19, then you must be opposed to the "medical marijuana" dispensaries. Since you must be opposed to the dispensaries, then what do you propose to do about them? If there are so many people rationally opposed to Proposition 19, then where is the political movement to get rid of the dispensaries?

And finally guess who is also opposed to Proposition 19? Why the "medical marijuana" dispensaries themselves. That's right, they are opposed to Proposition 19. Why? Because they know that yes on Proposition 19 means the end of the "medical marijuana" dispensaries. With legalization, nobody will need some kind of bogus doctor's license to get stoned and nobody will need to pay black market prices for some stupid plant.

We need to take our country back from the gangsters who are polluting our society with black market profits. Vote yes on Proposition 19.

The above is copied from a comment concerning drugs that I read this morning. Please note that the person said,"Leaglizing drugs will not solve the problem", and NO ,I am not the poster.

Whenever you post a quote from somebody else, out of respect for the source of the quote, you always need to at least explain where you got it from and, even better, provide a link.

[Rim05]

Whenever you post a quote from somebody else, out of respect for the source of the quote, you always need to at least explain where you got it from and, even better, provide a link.


I know all about posting the source of a story. The story I read had hundreds of comments so you only got one and the name of the person was one of those 'comment names' such as Towler.
I have wasted way too much time with you about drugs. Do what you want because I am against any kind of 'feel good' drugs. :rolleyes:

[Twoller]

I know all about posting the source of a story. The story I read had hundreds of comments so you only got one and the name of the person was one of those 'comment names' such as Towler.
I have wasted way too much time with you about drugs. Do what you want because I am against any kind of 'feel good' drugs. :rolleyes:

Okee dokee. Be sure to stay away from them Snicker's bars. :D

[Commander Bunny]

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100803/ARTICLES/100809876/1350?Title=Is-National-Guard-needed-for-Mendocino-pot-violence-

Fed up with armed marijuana growers taking over public lands, a group of Mendocino County residents on Tuesday asked the board of supervisors to declare a state of emergency and bring in the National Guard.



“They're everywhere, they are destroying the forest,” said Chris Brennan, a Laytonville rancher and federal trapper.

“It's out of control,” said Paul Trouette, a county Fish and Game commissioner.

Supervisors directed the county attorney to investigate what a state of emergency would entail and the potential repercussions.

The request comes one week after a sheriff's deputy shot to death a man that the sheriff's office said leveled a firearm at him in a large marijuana garden in the Mendocino National Forest east of Covelo.

Public lands have long been favorite locations for large-scale illegal marijuana gardens. But the problem has worsened, something state and federal drug enforcement officials blame on Mexican drug cartels.

This year, about 440,000 pot plants have been eradicated from the Mendocino National Forest alone, said Michael Gaston, assistant special agent in charge with the U.S. Forest Service.

Large-scale illegal cultivators are shooting and poisoning wildlife, dumping pesticides into streams, diverting streams and taking pot shots at people who attempt to use the forest between the spring and fall, Brennan said.

“I've been shot at,” he said.

A half dozen other people at the board meeting, held in Covelo for the first time in many years, said they'd also had warning shots fired in their direction while on public lands

“There are pieces of the county we don't go in now,” said Peter Bauer, a fifth generation Covelo cattle rancher. He said he won't be using some of the grazing permits he has for public lands because of marijuana gardens. “My livelihood is threatened by this,” he said.

Paula Fugman no longer rides horses on federal forest trails. “It's really scary,” she said.

One Covelo resident called the pot operations “an armed foreign invasion.”

Gaston said the U.S. Forest Service has boosted its enforcement manpower and is working with local and state officers. Efforts are focused on apprehending “queen bees” that run the operations, not just the workers who toil in and protect the pot, he said.

The department also is boosting its post-eradication cleanup, which includes destroying miles of black irrigation tubing and other pot-growing infrastructure and hauling out pesticides left behind.

North county residents say more must be done.

“We've already lost the war,” said Cory Miller, who lives five miles from the remote area where the shooting took place.

Supervisor John McCowen said the efforts will fail until the federal government decriminalizes marijuana, thus critically reducing its profitability.

Checkpoints at the entrances to forest land would greatly discourage pot growers from entering, she said.

“There are only a few roads in,” said Virginia Spivey, a teacher at the Round Valley High School in Covelo.

[Rim05]

Supervisor John McCowen said the efforts will fail until the federal government decriminalizes marijuana, thus critically reducing its profitability.



Another poor excuse for a public official. If he is not able or willing to do what he was elected to do, I would suggest that he step down.
Why don't we decriminalize every law we do not like?

[Twoller]

Another poor excuse for a public official. If he is not able or willing to do what he was elected to do, I would suggest that he step down.
Why don't we decriminalize every law we do not like?

The point is not to decriminalize every law we do not like, but to get rid of laws that don't work. Even more important is to get rid of laws that make problems worse instead of better. The laws against marijuana are based on moral hysteria, just like the old, abandoned laws against alcohol. The laws against marijuana are what are creating the calls for the national guard and a state of emergency.

Supervisor John McCowen was right when he said that decriminalizing marijuana will get rid of the problem by destroying its black market profitibality.

But notice, the people creating a problem growing the stuff are illegal immigrants. Why aren't the people who are calling for a state of emergency and the national guard not calling for a crackdown on illegal immigrants? You would think that the first thing they would be screaming for is Arizona's 1070, but I guess even the "conservatives" in Mendocino gots to have there leaf blower monkeys.

Vote Yes on Proposition 19 this November.

[Commander Bunny]

^ There's alot of Conservatives in the area, Mendo/Humboldt/ect. but there's also a large population of Progressives that will basically bend-over backward for the illegals as well.
The radio stations in those parts are constantly having fundraisers for the illegals, operations, cars, and all sort of stuff to assist Them, although it's the Cartel/illegals that have brought down the community.
You should see Ukiah, it's really become a barrio.

[Commander Bunny]

Lake County deputy shoots, kills armed man at marijuana garden

A Lake County sheriff’s deputy Wednesday shot and killed a man who leveled a rifle at officers investigating a large, illegal marijuana garden on public land between Cobb and Middletown, the Sheriff’s Office said.

The man was armed with a rifle when deputies and federal Bureau of Land Management agents confronted him around 6:30 a.m. in an area planted with thousands of pot plants off Socrates Mine Road, authorities said.

Deputies ordered him to drop his weapon, but he raised it toward them and was shot, Sheriff’s Sgt. Brian Martin said. The man, who was not identified, was pronounced dead at the scene.

He is the third person to be shot and killed in the last five weeks on the North Coast by officers investigating cultivation of pot during what’s become an especially violent marijuana enforcement season.

Armed guards pose an increasing threat for people in the region’s public lands as well as for officers airlifted into rugged terrain where clandestine gardens often are found, said Bob Nishiyama, who commands the Mendocino Major Crimes Task Force.

“Last year, we recovered more guns in gardens than any year prior,” Nishiyama said.

Task force officers seized 105 weapons in 2009, compared to 39 in 2007. The figures include marijuana garden raids and other missions, according to the unit’s annual reports.

This year, agents with the task force, which runs as many as three raids a week, often hear gunshots as they’re lowered by helicopter into illegal gardens, he said.

Informants have said the gardens’ guards now are told by their employers, many of whom are thought to be connected to Mexican drug cartels, to stay and fight or they won’t get paid, he said.

“We’d assume they were shooting to slow us down as they try to escape,” Nishiyama said. “But now we have to rethink that.”

In Napa County, a Fresno man was fatally shot June 30 in a garden raid near Lake Berryessa when he drew his handgun and refused orders by Napa Special Investigations Bureau officers to put it down.

In Mendocino County, a deputy on July 27 shot and killed a man who leveled a rifle at authorities raiding a garden in the northeastern part of the county near Tehama County, officials said.

Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman has declined to release the deputy’s name, saying it would be made public at the end of an internal investigation.

But other law enforcement sources said the deputy is Sgt. Bruce Smith, who heads the County of Mendocino Marijuana Eradication Team, COMMET.

Allman said he would “neither confirm nor deny” that the deputy was Smith. But he previously said the deputy had been involved in a shooting in “about 1989.”

Smith shot an armed suspect in 1990 during a routine traffic stop near Leggett, the only officer-involved shooting for which news records could be found during that time frame.

Six bullets were fired at Smith but Smith was not hurt, investigators said at the time. The District Attorney’s Office ruled the shooting self defense.

On July 21, a suspect was shot by a Santa Clara County deputy during a raid in the hills between Santa Clara and Alameda counties.

The Lake County incident occurred on Bureau of Land Management property between Socrates Mine and Ford Flat roads, about half a mile from Socrates Mine Road, Martin said.

Although it would be typical for more than one person to tend and guard a grow of that size, no other suspects were seen by officers. The garden of immature plants included some that measured 6 feet tall, Martin said.

The name of the deputy who shot the suspect and the number of times the suspect was shot were not released.

The deputy remained on duty Wednesday but may be put on administrative leave pending an investigation into the shooting by the District Attorney’s Office and the Sheriff’s Office, Martin said.

“We’d assume they were shooting to slow us down as they try to escape,” Nishiyama said. “But now we have to rethink that.”

In Napa County, a Fresno man was fatally shot June 30 in a garden raid near Lake Berryessa when he drew his handgun and refused orders by Napa Special Investigations Bureau officers to put it down.

In Mendocino County, a deputy on July 27 shot and killed a man who leveled a rifle at authorities raiding a garden in the northeastern part of the county near Tehama County, officials said.

Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman has declined to release the deputy’s name, saying it would be made public at the end of an internal investigation.

But other law enforcement sources said the deputy is Sgt. Bruce Smith, who heads the County of Mendocino Marijuana Eradication Team, COMMET.

Allman said he would “neither confirm nor deny” that the deputy was Smith. But he previously said the deputy had been involved in a shooting in “about 1989.”

Smith shot an armed suspect in 1990 during a routine traffic stop near Leggett, the only officer-involved shooting for which news records could be found during that time frame.

Six bullets were fired at Smith but Smith was not hurt, investigators said at the time. The District Attorney’s Office ruled the shooting self defense.

On July 21, a suspect was shot by a Santa Clara County deputy during a raid in the hills between Santa Clara and Alameda counties.

The Lake County incident occurred on Bureau of Land Management property between Socrates Mine and Ford Flat roads, about half a mile from Socrates Mine Road, Martin said.
Although it would be typical for more than one person to tend and guard a grow of that size, no other suspects were seen by officers. The garden of immature plants included some that measured 6 feet tall, Martin said.

The name of the deputy who shot the suspect and the number of times the suspect was shot were not released.

The deputy remained on duty Wednesday but may be put on administrative leave pending an investigation into the shooting by the District Attorney’s Office and the Sheriff’s Office, Martin said.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100804/ARTICLES/100809846/1033/news?p=1&tc=pg

[Commander Bunny]

Mendocino County residents determined to take land back from large-scale pot growers..

Looks like a few Counties/State Agencies are teaming-up without Federal assistance...a good read.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100806/ARTICLES/100809669/1350?p=1&tc=pg


I thought this was a silly comment:
A governor's spokesman said he has never heard of an emergency being declared over pot.

[Twoller]

Mendocino County residents determined to take land back from large-scale pot growers..

Looks like a few Counties/State Agencies are teaming-up without Federal assistance...a good read.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100806/ARTICLES/100809669/1350?p=1&tc=pg


I thought this was a silly comment:
A governor's spokesman said he has never heard of an emergency being declared over pot.

But there is still not even the mention of the actual problem: Illegal immigration. This is where the crackdown needs to be, along with property and land use violations. The war on marijuana is what has created the grow operations. Illicit grows were started in Mendo by citizens, not illegals. Now illegals have taken the whole thing to the next level. And why wouldn't they? It is the illegals who are in charge of the trade in marijuana. If they grow it in Mexico or grow it in Mendocino, the money still moves south. And the whole process is born and regulated from Mexico through the cartels who have clearly set up shop in the US.

If we can remove marijuana from the black market, the illegals will still be in Mendocino and they will still be plying criminal enterprises to make up for the revenue they lose from the decriminalization of marijuana.

As long as we refuse to hunt down and throw out illegal immigrants, they are going to continue to cause problems like this.

But it is most important that we strike a blow against their handlers and enablers based in Mexico by voting yes on Proposition 19. Illegal immigration is a criminal enterprise that works hand in hand with organized crime based outside of the US. Take food out of their mouths by taking away their black markets and we strike a blow against illegal immigration.

[Commander Bunny]

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100808/ARTICLES/100809605/1349?Title=Sonoma-County-residents-root-out-pot-gardens

One retired teacher is so angry about the dammed streams, booby-trapped trails and garbage dumped in the woods by marijuana growers that on Sunday she risked confrontation to hunt down a pot garden she suspected was on her land.

“I have a hot Italian temper,” said Carol Vellutini, 68, of Santa Rosa. “I'm furious when people dump garbage in pristine places.”

On Sunday, Vellutini led a group of friends armed with shotguns into her rugged and and remote property that spans 300 acres about 25 miles northwest of Santa Rosa...

Hmm, what I don't get is that They only plants that were 6"-8" tall, by this time of the season they should have been at least 4'-8' tall.
Something just does'nt seem right here to Me, perhaps the Growers knew that they've been spotted, and cut a few branches off some of the weaker plants, cloned 'em basically, and left this patch to be dicovered, rather than Their main crop, perhaps on an adjacent property
That would explain the size of the plant They found on Her property.
or They were really, really bad at growing...?

[Twoller]

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100808/ARTICLES/100809605/1349?Title=Sonoma-County-residents-root-out-pot-gardens

One retired teacher is so angry about the dammed streams, booby-trapped trails and garbage dumped in the woods by marijuana growers that on Sunday she risked confrontation to hunt down a pot garden she suspected was on her land.

“I have a hot Italian temper,” said Carol Vellutini, 68, of Santa Rosa. “I'm furious when people dump garbage in pristine places.”

On Sunday, Vellutini led a group of friends armed with shotguns into her rugged and and remote property that spans 300 acres about 25 miles northwest of Santa Rosa...

Hmm, what I don't get is that They only plants that were 6"-8" tall, by this time of the season they should have been at least 4'-8' tall.
Something just does'nt seem right here to Me, perhaps the Growers knew that they've been spotted, and cut a few branches off some of the weaker plants, cloned 'em basically, and left this patch to be dicovered, rather than Their main crop, perhaps on an adjacent property
That would explain the size of the plant They found on Her property.
or They were really, really bad at growing...?

Yes, an important way to confront these illicit grows is for property owners to keep better track of their property. This doesn't work as well for public property or wilderness areas.

There are ideal planting times for any crop, but for a plant as hardy as cannabis, any time will work

[Commander Bunny]

^Actually, for cannabis, it's very important to get 'em in the ground early so that the Grower gets alot of long days, and blue sunlight spectrum, then when the days get shorter, and the sun emits more red/yellow in it's spectrum, they start to flower/bud.
Indoor growers force the plants for the 1st month with up to 24 hrs of metal halide lights (blue/white) then force them with 12-0n/12-off with high pressure sodium lights ( red/yellow) for 2 months,.
That's how they get what's called '3 month-miracles", but 4 months is usual for maximum yield.
These Imps of plants are'nt going to be anywhere near marketable by late fall, unless that area gets unusually warm/dry weather in october/nov.
And wet weather will make a crop worthless as well, rain will ruin a crop after flowering, and fog will create "bud-rot, and powdery mildew.

To Me, it seems these were almost a "plant"...meant to be found.

[Rim05]

This is an LA Times article in the 8-13 10 AA section page 3,Business Group to fight Prop 19.







http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pot-workplace-20100813,0,3183676.story

[Commander Bunny]

Yeah, I read that a few days ago.
So much for a "drug-free workplace".
I wonder if this'll effect requirements on Folks that drive HazMat, or heavy equiptment Operators?...those rules are pretty strict.
I can see a potential Employer asking/not hiring an Applicant if They have a Dr's recommendation for cannabis.
I'd fire an Employee that was drunk on the job in an instant, pot deffinately does have an effect on a few things, dept perception is one that would make a stoned Employee lose his/Her fingers in my kitchen.
I can see alot of 'discriminatory" lawsuits over not getting hired, and also suits on job accidents, and Workers comp. on this decision.

[Twoller]

This is an LA Times article in the 8-13 10 AA section page 3,Business Group to fight Prop 19.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pot-workplace-20100813,0,3183676.story

That's just nuts. Legalization will not mean employers will be required to let people smoke pot on the job any more than it means they have to let people drink on the job.

The current problem is that people do get high at the work place and in addition, people deal drugs at the workplace. And if you think dealing drugs at school is a problem, it is even more of a threat to the workplace. When organized crime gets a toehold into a workplace, then all kinds of criminal activity directed against the company and its property loom dramatically.

With legalization, pot smokers can come out of the closet and dope dealers will be caught in the spotlight. The pot smokers will get their pot at the 7-11, the employers will tell them they better not catch them lighting up on the job and the dope dealers will have nobody to turn to. They will have to give it up.

Medical marijuana users also have no business insisting on being able to get high on the job. Unless they can show a prescription, and none of them have a prescription, just a license, they have no cause to tell an employer that they have to get high to confront a medical problem.

But of course with legalization, "medical marijuana" will go away pretty quick.

[ilbegone]

I'm surprised I missed this thread.

I'm only going to post on this once, and I don't have time for running endless arguments anymore.

I'm in favor of backyard growing only, no commercial production at all.

Trafficking, smuggling, and large scale possession off one's immediate premises should have much larger consequences than they do now. And the plants should match possession. 200 lbs from two plants? Go to jail for a long, long time.


The cartels will only take their massive profits to buy into and dominate the legalized and taxed marijuana business. It will just be a case of reduced profit, albeit a much less risky profit. And, they will have a laundering and logistic base for their other illicit enterprises (including sex slavery) - which won't reduce the killing.

There will be no reduction in consumption of pot, no matter how many laws we pass to criminalize the practice, so we must do what's practical to hurt the cartels, stop the killing, and save our forests.

Pot was in the schools in the 60's and seventies. As well, locally, the man I knew who most consistently had the very best "Christmas tree" pot in town for personal use about fifteen years ago was a junior high school janitor WHO BOUGHT IT FROM KIDS ON THE CAMPUS WHERE HE WORKED

I'm not going suggest how anyone should vote concerning pot laws except that they should follow their own convictions and consiounce

[Jeanfromfillmore]

This situation seems to be; We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. But what is a fact is; What we're doing now isn't working.

[Ayatollahgondola]

This situation seems to be; We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. But what is a fact is; What we're doing now isn't working.

I don't know that we're doing anything now. It's more like we're not doing anything

[Twoller]

It is most important to really grasp what is we have now to appreciate what a dramatic improvement decriminalization will make.

I agree that legalization is not necessary. But it's too late to worry about legalization. We already have a kind of legalization in the dispensaries. The "medical marijuana" dispensaries are a real boon to the cartels. There are no rigorous accounts or policing at a statewide or national level as to where the stuff is coming from and where the money is going. And when you think about everything that most go into policing this and what the "medical marijuana" dispensaries are really all about, you realize that legalization is really the end game for confronting this. With commercial legalization comes the end of the "medical marijuana" dispensaries and their black market prices.

Decriminalization for personal grows and possession was something that should have happened twenty or more years ago, but instead we got the dispensaries.

If you are opposed to legalization, you must be opposed to the dispensaries, unless you are in the dispensary business and have seen the writing on the wall as to what legalization means to your future profits. And, in fact, the dispensaries are opposed to Proposition 19, they are issuing all kinds of propoganda designed to instill fear in their happy consumers about how the quality and diversity of the available pot is going to go down hill. About how it is all going to be run by huge corporations. It's all nonsense.

If you are opposed to Proposition 19 and you are not in the dispensary business, then you must be opposed to the dispensaries. And you must have a plan for getting rid of them. But nobody, and especially the dispensaries themselves, have any such plan for getting rid of "medical marijuana".

It really is time to clean up this mess once and for all. Vote yes on Proposition 19. Starve the Cartels, shut down the "medical marijuana" dispensaries. Take marijuana off the streets and out of the schools and put in the hands of those who think they will still care about it when it is no longer a forbidden vice and takes it's place along side beer and cigarettes.

[Rim05]

It really is time to clean up this mess once and for all. Vote yes on Proposition 19. Starve the Cartels, shut down the "medical marijuana" dispensaries. Take marijuana off the streets and out of the schools and put in the hands of those who think they will still care about it when it is no longer a forbidden vice and takes it's place along side beer and cigarettes.
__________________

I have never seen anyone push for the legalization of an illegal product so hard.

I will not tell you how many years I have lived with out the 'help' of some illegal drug, plant or drink. What ever decision I have ever made was with a clear mind.

Do you ever question why we are having so many big rig accidents? Bet dollars to donuts the 'weed' is the cause of many of them. Tobacco does not impair the brain but someone decided it causes cancer which I still doubt. Alcohol is one of the worsts things for impairing the brain, but no one talks about it.
Don't you realize a lot of crime is caused because individuals are bummed out because of some substance?
Seems to me these vices are pushed by those who want a dumbed down brain and their only solution is "legalize" it, I gotta have it. Tax money is not the solution to everything.

[ilbegone]

I said I was only going to post once...

Do you ever question why we are having so many big rig accidents? Bet dollars to donuts the 'weed' is the cause of many of them.

Truck accidents have a number of causes:

The brain dead driver of a Honda car full of children who cuts off trucks is one of them.

Rarely is a truck allowed by car drivers to merge or change lanes. If there is room to move over, 98% of the time a car in the desired lane will move up in order to prevent lane change ("can't have a truck in front of me!!!). Then, if the truck driver forces his way over in turn and there is a "snitch sticker" on the back of the truck, the car driver will call in with some story about how the truck driver tried to commit premeditated vehicular murder across every lane the roadway has. Maybe not satisfied, the car driver might later write a letter to the editor stating the belief that truck drivers "think they own the road".

Since deregulation, there is little money in driving trucks anymore, and owner operator Mexican nationals and Armenian imports (as well as other clannish foreigners who pool resources and live 48 to a single family dwelling) have largely driven even that down. To make money at all, a truck has to have a paying load and be on the road all the time.

Tired drivers, overloaded trucks, deferred or neglected maintenance, and falsified logs.

As well as knucklehead car drivers who think 60,000 lbs can stop on a dime.

[Twoller]

I have never seen anyone push for the legalization of an illegal product so hard.

I will not tell you how many years I have lived with out the 'help' of some illegal drug, plant or drink. What ever decision I have ever made was with a clear mind.

Do you ever question why we are having so many big rig accidents? Bet dollars to donuts the 'weed' is the cause of many of them. Tobacco does not impair the brain but someone decided it causes cancer which I still doubt. Alcohol is one of the worsts things for impairing the brain, but no one talks about it.
Don't you realize a lot of crime is caused because individuals are bummed out because of some substance?
Seems to me these vices are pushed by those who want a dumbed down brain and their only solution is "legalize" it, I gotta have it. Tax money is not the solution to everything.

What do you think of "medical marijuana" and the legal marijuana dispensaries?

[Rim05]

I said I was only going to post once...



It is ok to post your ideas and thoughts. Many of those listed were legit. I did know a young man who was raised in a very christain home. At some point he became a long haul truck driver and started using drugs. After both of his parents were dead he was left with a paid for home and a bit of money. Couple of years ago his uncle said he was living in a trailer park. His only brother was killed in an accident when he was about 10. That is one case I can relate to because I know the people although they have all lived in CO. for many years.

[Rim05]

What do you think of "medical marijuana" and the legal marijuana dispensaries?

I am not for medical marijuana or legal marijuana dispensaries. When you open a dangerous door it is just that.
I voted for the medical use and what happened? I think most of those calling themselves in medical need are nothing but foggy brain indiviuals who have found a way to get there fix. I fell for the medical need in the beginning but I will not fall for it again. We have doctors who write prescriptions. I have serious pain everyday but I will use prescriptions, no weed for me.

[Twoller]

I am not for medical marijuana or legal marijuana dispensaries. When you open a dangerous door it is just that.
I voted for the medical use and what happened? I think most of those calling themselves in medical need are nothing but foggy brain indiviuals who have found a way to get there fix. I fell for the medical need in the beginning but I will not fall for it again. We have doctors who write prescriptions. I have serious pain everyday but I will use prescriptions, no weed for me.


Right. You seriously believed that those campaigning for "medical marijuana" were actually ever concerned about using the drug for whatever medical purposes it is supposed to have? You never considered that morphine is also used for medical purposes, but you cannot get a doctor's license to purchase it whenever you want? Did you know that morphine is just what you use to make heroine? You can't even get a prescription for morphine, it is always dispensed only under direct supervision.

So now you regret your decision for supporting the "medical marijuana" dispensaries.

What do you think should be done about the "medical marijuana" dispensaries?

[Jeanfromfillmore]

It is most important to really grasp what is we have now to appreciate what a dramatic improvement decriminalization will make.

I agree that legalization is not necessary. But it's too late to worry about legalization. We already have a kind of legalization in the dispensaries. The "medical marijuana" dispensaries are a real boon to the cartels. There are no rigorous accounts or policing at a statewide or national level as to where the stuff is coming from and where the money is going. And when you think about everything that most go into policing this and what the "medical marijuana" dispensaries are really all about, you realize that legalization is really the end game for confronting this. With commercial legalization comes the end of the "medical marijuana" dispensaries and their black market prices.

Decriminalization for personal grows and possession was something that should have happened twenty or more years ago, but instead we got the dispensaries.

If you are opposed to legalization, you must be opposed to the dispensaries, unless you are in the dispensary business and have seen the writing on the wall as to what legalization means to your future profits. And, in fact, the dispensaries are opposed to Proposition 19, they are issuing all kinds of propoganda designed to instill fear in their happy consumers about how the quality and diversity of the available pot is going to go down hill. About how it is all going to be run by huge corporations. It's all nonsense.

If you are opposed to Proposition 19 and you are not in the dispensary business, then you must be opposed to the dispensaries. And you must have a plan for getting rid of them. But nobody, and especially the dispensaries themselves, have any such plan for getting rid of "medical marijuana".

It really is time to clean up this mess once and for all. Vote yes on Proposition 19. Starve the Cartels, shut down the "medical marijuana" dispensaries. Take marijuana off the streets and out of the schools and put in the hands of those who think they will still care about it when it is no longer a forbidden vice and takes it's place along side beer and cigarettes.

As a 501(c)3 we can not "tell" others how to vote. So let it be known that SaveOurState does not officially promote Proposition 19, nor do we oppose it. The statements are only the posters opinion.

[Rim05]

Thanks Jean. Good point. :)

[Twoller]

All of the questions or comments that I make are my own and in no way express views of Save Our State.

I'm just expressing a personal opinion, just like everyone else contributing to this thread.

And I'm also just asking another poster their opinion, but I'll make it a general question to anyone:

If you are opposed to Proposition 19, then what do you think should be done about the "medical marijuana" dispensaries?

[Patriotic Army Mom]

I agree with you Rimo. After being married so someone with this vice and a few others, there's no way anyone can convince me that this is a good idea.

[Commander Bunny]

Mendocino County supervisors won't be declaring a state of emergency in response to the massive marijuana gardens being grown on public lands, a tactic requested by county residents fed up with being unable to safely use forest land.

Instead, they will invite five other counties to participate in a December symposium aimed at creating a regional effort to to eradicate marijuana in the Mendocino National Forest...
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100817/ARTICLES/100819552/1350?Title=Mendocino-supervisors-say-no-to-marijuana-state-of-emergency-

December???...gee that's only 2 months AFTER harvest...what a bunch of Idiots.

[Ayatollahgondola]

December???...gee that's only 2 months AFTER harvest...what a bunch of Idiots.

CommanderBunny,

I think we need to kick the canaries in your cage :D

December's a perfect time for this....in The new banana republic

[Twoller]

Mendocino County supervisors won't be declaring a state of emergency in response to the massive marijuana gardens being grown on public lands, a tactic requested by county residents fed up with being unable to safely use forest land.

Instead, they will invite five other counties to participate in a December symposium aimed at creating a regional effort to to eradicate marijuana in the Mendocino National Forest...
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100817/ARTICLES/100819552/1350?Title=Mendocino-supervisors-say-no-to-marijuana-state-of-emergency-

December???...gee that's only 2 months AFTER harvest...what a bunch of Idiots.

Maybe they're not so stupid. Put the pressure on and the prices go up. At least for the local growers, not so much for the cartels. Still a lot of citizens into this racket and they pay taxes ... lot's and lot's of taxes ... some of them under the table.

Vote yes on Proposition 19 and end the rot.

[Commander Bunny]

Federal officials have issued a public alert after deer hunters in the South Cow Mountain Recreational Area outside Ukiah were confronted by armed men in an area near a campground where evidence suggests marijuana was being grown.



The Bureau of Land Management frequently finds cannabis gardens in the area, but with Sunday's encounter warned the public to beware.

“The Bureau of Land Management is investigating the incident,” Rich Burns, BLM Ukiah Field Office manager said in a press statement. “In the meantime, anyone visiting the area should be aware of their surroundings and leave the area if they notice anything unusual.”

The Cow Mountain Recreational Area, a rugged, 52,000-acre expanse east of Ukiah in the hills between Highways 20 and 175, is used for hiking, mountain biking, hunting and, in its southern portion, off-road vehicles.

BLM personnel said the five hunters were on Trail 8 near the Red Mountain Campground on South Cow Mountain's west side when they noticed drip irrigation tubing of the kind often used in pot gardens and were confronted by two armed Latino men.

The hunters turned back but were confronted by a third armed man.

As they drove from the area, they encountered yet a fourth man in a pickup truck who warned them to stay out of the area, authorities said.

The men related the incident to the BLM on Monday, spokesman David Christy said, and authorities are looking for a marijuana grow based on their report.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100819/ARTICLES/100819415/1350?Title=Hunters-threatened-by-armed-men-in-Cow-Mountain

[Commander Bunny]

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100820/NEWS/100829998/1350?Title=Man-killed-by-deputies-at-Mendocino-County-pot-garden-ID-d-
Another upstanding Anderson Valley/Boonville "resident" shot...



Mendocino County authorities have identified the man shot and killed Wednesday by sheriff's deputies as Mariano Lopez Fernandez, 31.

Fernandez, previously a Boonville resident, was a transient growing marijuana in Laytonville when drug agents raiding a large property west of town early Wednesday encountered him in a pot garden, sheriff's Capt. Kurt Smallcomb said.

Authorities described Fernandez as an “armed guard,” one of several armed suspects tending to the garden, and said he was shot by three of five deputies at the site when he brandished a rifle.

He was pronounced dead at the scene, officials said.

Authorities have not made public how many times he was shot or by how many deputies.

They have not identified the deputies, either.

An autopsy was conducted Thursday, but Smallcomb said officials will not be releasing results until all medical and toxicology tests are complete - a process that usually takes several weeks.

Fernandez was in one of two gardens on a larger property at which a contingent of 60 county and federal agents were serving search warrants.

There was also gunfire at the second garden, where, officials said, four armed suspects fired upon drug agents who returned fire.

The suspects then fled, and it remained unknown if any were struck or injured.

No officers were hit in that exchange.

At least 2,400 marijuana plants were seized in the operation, as well as firearms and other narcotic paraphernalia, authorities said.

Four people were arrested at a residence on the property as well.

[Commander Bunny]

Here's a good one:
http://www.myphl17.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-marijuana-mistake,0,2073537.story

RED BLUFF, Calif. (AP) — California wildlife officials say two men are in custody after a group of marijuana growers started to toss bags full of pot into a pickup truck belonging to game wardens they mistook for their suppliers.

State Department of Fish and Game spokesman Pat Foy says two wardens in Tehama County were looking for deer poachers Monday night in the Shasta-Trinity National Forest when they heard footsteps behind them.

They turned and saw five men hauling large military-style duffel bags and sleeping bags. Foy said the men approached the wardens' truck as if to toss the bags in the bed.

The wardens began shouting commands at the group and managed to handcuff two, one of whom was carrying a shotgun. Three others escaped into the forest.

The wardens recovered 127 pounds of processed marijuana.

[Twoller]

Here's a good one:
http://www.myphl17.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-marijuana-mistake,0,2073537.story

RED BLUFF, Calif. (AP) — California wildlife officials say two men are in custody after a group of marijuana growers started to toss bags full of pot into a pickup truck belonging to game wardens they mistook for their suppliers.

State Department of Fish and Game spokesman Pat Foy says two wardens in Tehama County were looking for deer poachers Monday night in the Shasta-Trinity National Forest when they heard footsteps behind them.

They turned and saw five men hauling large military-style duffel bags and sleeping bags. Foy said the men approached the wardens' truck as if to toss the bags in the bed.

The wardens began shouting commands at the group and managed to handcuff two, one of whom was carrying a shotgun. Three others escaped into the forest.

The wardens recovered 127 pounds of processed marijuana.

Wow, they see a truck show up and figure it must be a pickup. That's how routine this all must be. It's a very well oiled machine. Too bad the wardens missed the other three, I guess they just weren't ready for that.

[CitaDeL]

Here's a good one:

I heard about this on the local news talk and was going to post it... Its pretty telling that either they were very tired or are so accustomed to this routine that it was perfectly natural to toss their goods in back of a truck when they were ready.

[Ayatollahgondola]

I heard about this on the local news talk and was going to post it... Its pretty telling that either they were very tired or are so accustomed to this routine that it was perfectly natural to toss their goods in back of a truck when they were ready.

Or they are used to people in government being in on crime

[ilbegone]

Local rules hazy for pot measure

James Rufus Koren
09/18/2010

Carry it, grow it, but don't expect to buy it.

A Nov. 2 ballot measure could legalize marijuana in California, but even if it passes, Inland Empire residents likely won't to be able to buy a dime bag at their local 7-11.

Proposition 19, if passed, would make it legal for any California age 21 or older to grow marijuana and carry up to one ounce of it. It would also allow local jurisdictions to regulate and tax the sale of pot. Local leaders say that won't happen.

"It's not anything we want for our community," said Redlands Mayor Pat Gilbreath. "I know that would never happen in my community if I had anything to say about it."

While Prop. 19 supporters say permitting and taxing marijuana sales would be an income source for cash-strapped cities and counties, local leaders say the disagreement between state and federal marijuana laws, the costs of regulating marijuana sales and their personal beliefs that marijuana is bad for communities are all reasons not to allow pot to be bought and sold locally.

"Why would I put this whole mechanism in place to regulate marijuana sales when I'm not going to get anything from it?" said Fontana Mayor Frank Scialdone. "We're going to have to put in resources to monitor this. Where are those resources going to come from?"

Claremont Mayor Linda Elderkin said local governments have been walking on egg shells for years as they try to stay in line with federal law - which says marijuana is illegal for everyone - and state law - which says its OK for people with a prescription. That won't change if California law opens up marijuana for recreational users.

"On medical marijuana, cities have found themselves squarely between the state and federal governments, and (Prop. 19) is likely to have the same impact on us," Elderkin said. "If it passes, all cities will have to be looking at how to negotiate the deep waters of conflict between state and federal law."

But beyond their hesitance to allow pot to be bought and sold - something Prop. 19 allows but does not demand - some local leaders are against the notion of letting people carry marijuana and grow it locally - something Prop. 19 would make mandatory.

"If they have it in their backyard, I'm not sure we can zone that out," Gilbreath said. "But I'd certainly like to try to find a way to do it."

That, says Prop. 19 supporter Lanny Swerdlow, medical director of a medical marijuana clinic in Riverside, is dangerous talk that hearkens back to the ongoing fight between local governments and medical marijuana advocates.

"There's no doubt in my mind that if Prop. 19 passes, law enforcement is going to be as ferocious and tenacious in opposing it as they have been in opposing Prop. 215," Swerdlow said, referring to the 1996 ballot measure that legalized medical marijuana. "If the mayor is saying she will work to undermine to vote of the people of California, I think people should have a problem with that."

Though Prop. 215 has been on the books for 14 years, medical marijuana dispensaries and collectives are banned in San Bernardino, Fontana, Upland, Rancho Cucamonga, Ontario, Redlands and other local cities.

Swerdlow said medical marijuana advocates weren't well-organized after Prop. 215 passed, allowing local governments to freely set up rules that have become the subject of a protracted legal battle.

This time, he said, that won't be the case.

"With 215 we did nothing," he said. "With 19, we've learned from our mistakes. ... We're going to take the offensive and see to it that it's enforced."

And despite local leaders' stance, Swerdlow said he thinks many local cities will allow marijuana to be produced and sold if Prop. 19 passes.

"If Los Angeles allows it, within a few weeks, (local leaders) will notice the tens of thousands of residents going to L.A. to buy marijuana legally," he said. "They'll be spending millions and the county of San Bernardino won't be making a dime. ... I don't think they'll let that money go simply because they're as pure as the driven snow."

http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_16111292

[ilbegone]

Madera County pot bust nets illegals

Sep. 17, 2010
By Jim Guy / The Fresno Bee

Three men that Madera County Sheriff John Anderson says have ties to drug-trafficking organizations were arrested Thursday near Chowchilla on charges of possessing firearms. Also, the 175 marijuana plants they were tending were seized.

Sheriff's spokeswoman Erica Stuart said the three had medical marijuana cards but they are undocumented aliens. The sheriff said undocumented aliens are not allowed to possess firearms. Stuart said they would be sent back to Mexico.

Stuart also said the department seized the plants because once the suspects were in custody, there was no one on the property with medical permission to grow the plants.

"That play bought each of them a one-way pass back to Mexico," Anderson said.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/09/17/2082195/madera-county-pot-bust-nets-illegals.html

[Patriotic Army Mom]

I won't vote yes! It's funny while this discussion continues 13 and 14 year old kids think that this is the only way to go and they begin to toke their way into dumb down! Lately, it's created some problems and I'm fighting mad! It's the gateway to other stuff, and not wanting to bury another family member or friend to any of this stuff, gets a no vote from me.

[ilbegone]

I know people who have had tragedies within their families with drugs, and alcohol as well.

Some decades ago there were a few years I was perpetually stoned out of my gourd, I believe there were quite a few circumstances which would have been much better if that had not been the case.

However, I believe the real scourge is meth. I snorted it just once, and never again. Because I LIKED IT and I've seen people get all sucked up, lose their teeth, age extremely fast, and live in that demented tweeker parallel dimension. No one can be so busy and not accomplish a single thing like a tweeker, and I don't believe that even heroin can turn out such a batch of prolific liars and thieves.

What really is "gateway", would that include coffee? The sugar in commercial snacks? Where is that line really drawn?

My thought is that those who are inclined are going to obtain it, as occurred with alcohol over thirteen officially dry years. It is also a blood soaked product just as booze was during prohibition. And no amount of education, no amount of "Reefer Madness" screenings are going to diminish the demand.

I'm not sure that either proposition 19 or unfettered legalization is the answer. However, I do know that illegal trade has created created wealthy, bloody handed thugs who originated from poverty stricken obscurity.

They need to be broken by taking the profitability out of the marijuana trade, and continued illegality of marijuana will do nothing but finance them and ramp up the body count.

[Patriotic Army Mom]

I agree meth is bad. I also know that some of them don't have their teeth fall out. Thiefs and drugs somehow go together. Although drunks go that way. It all keeps the cemeteries busy and in business.

[ilbegone]

Pot has long history

Marijuana was legal drug until the 1930s

Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell, Staff Writer

10/15/2010

In the 1930s, the drug czar of the day and a powerful newspaper publisher launched a vicious campaign against marijuana, naming it a deadly, dreadful poison.

The efforts of Harry Anslinger, the first commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, with the support of William Randolph Hearst and other staunch opponents, led to the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937, which made it illegal at the federal level.

"Before then it could be found in every corner drugstore," said Lanny Swerdlow, director of the Inland Empire- based Marijuana Anti-Prohibition Project.

There have been many rules and regulations since.

On Nov. 2, Californians will vote on Proposition 19, which, if passed, would change California law to legalize marijuana and allow it to be regulated and taxed.

It is the latest in the debate over marijuana use.

Richard Portillo, who runs Hemet-based Og Genetics, helps supply medical marijuana for medical marijuana dispensaries and the patients who rely on them. He calls Proposition 19 a "funny thing" since lawmakers seem to have been constantly "going back and forth" on the issue.

For centuries, it was legal, with Chinese physicians recommending its use 5,000 years ago for pain. The Egyptians used it for the pain of childbirth.

In this country, the Virginia Assembly passed legislation in 1619 requiring every farmer to grow hemp, the fiber that comes from cannabis, or marijuana.

Colonists subsequently set aside part of their gardens to grow hemp, which was used for rope, clothing and ship sails.

"George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both promoted its use, while Benjamin Franklin went to Europe wearing homespun clothing made from hemp," said Jan Werner, vice president of the Clearview Lake Corp., which has medical marijuana dispensaries in Bloomington and Corona.

Although laws were enacted regulating its use, marijuana continued to be used for medicinal and industrial purposes leading up to the 1930s.

After the Marijuana Tax Act, drafted by Anslinger, passed, doctors could no longer prescribe the drug, said Swerdlow.

"The busting and the terrorizing began and it has been going on since," he said.

Although marijuana was ubiquitous in the 1960s, it remained illegal.

In 1996, Proposition 215 was passed in California, allowing patients with a valid doctor's recommendation to possess and cultivate marijuana for personal medical use.

Several other states followed suit.

It remains illegal at the federal level and marijuana dispensaries continue to be in the line of fire in San Bernardino and Riverside counties, said Swerdlow.

And now there is Proposition 19, which would allow people 21 and older to possess, cultivate or transport marijuana for personal use.

The controversial proposition is currently the source of much debate. U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder announced Friday that the proposition won't stop federal drug enforcement.

Tim Rosales, spokesman for Sacramento-based No on Proposition 19, believes it is a badly flawed initiative that will not have the desired effect.

"It essentially carves out special rights for people who use recreational marijuana that could cause a host of other problems," he said. "There are people across the board opposed to it, and we need to go back to the drawing board."

But Swerdlow, a supporter, believes the time is now for the legalization.

"It will raise a lot of revenue for a bankrupt state and allow the police to go out on real crimes," he said. "It's absolutely time because it should never have been made illegal in the first place."

[Rim05]

"It will raise a lot of revenue for a bankrupt state and allow the police to go out on real crimes," he said. "It's absolutely time because it should never have been made illegal in the first place."


A need for more revenue can always be argued on all levels. I have all I need to live on but, Oh it would be nice if I could have an i-pod, a better car, a new HD TV. How about a rib eye every day.
People do not know what they really need. Marijana is the first step to other drugs. As you stated in a post above, you were stoned out of your head at one time. That stoned head is what I will never allow to happen to me.

I fear most of our politicians are stoned most of the time.